Question: Gluing vinyl D-ring patches to pe kayak hull

boatbuster · Post by **boatbuster** » Fri May 07, 2010 1:37 pm

I am outfitting a Nomad 8.1 for C-1 and want to glue in some Bell Canoe Knee Straps which are attached to large figure-8-shaped vinyl patches.

What is the best glue to use? If I were gluing to Royalex I would use a vinyl adhesive like vinabond. Can I just rough up the pe surface with sandpaper and use that?

EZ offered his opinion below that I should use G-Flex epoxy and carefully flame the surface.

Which is best, or should I go with a heavy duty contact cement?

Thanks!

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Fri May 07, 2010 2:18 pm

Contact cement is fine for knee pads, but it will not hold well enough for strap anchors. Vyna bond won't work either. Nothing sticks.
G-flex is new and some (at least 1) people are having success (so far) with it for anchors. But I know that it is not working as advertised for repairing cracks in kayaks, so I don't trust it.

why not just bolt webbing & d-rings to your center support/ backbone?

OC1er · Post by **OC1er** » Fri May 07, 2010 2:28 pm

I just tried the same with Weldwood Contact cement. Cement will stick fine to the boat but not to the vinyl. When I pulled the vinyl anchors off in disgust they came off clean - all the cement stuck to the boat! I've had some success with gorilla glue between vinyl anchors and the Mad River TT material (which was some kind of polyeth that resisted all other glues I tried. Mad River won't readily admit to what that material actually is anymore). I used sandbags to clamp...

WaveRhydr · Post by **WaveRhydr** » Fri May 07, 2010 2:49 pm

One person posted something like "nothing sticks". I noticed that on the dagger torrent they appear to use stainless steel screws/hardware to attach their straps. This is all from viewing the pics.

I figure if dagger is using hardware for attachment, maybe there is a reason. Next question: Where to get the hardware to attach regular straps?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Im thinking seriously of getting a sit on top and would prolly next put in straps. If my idea is flawed, Id just as soon know it now

xmas0c1c1k1 · Post by **xmas0c1c1k1** » Fri May 07, 2010 5:12 pm

Yeah its best to have some sort of back bone to bolt the straps to like a fence rail dagger pedestal liquidlogic rail but if you are set on using those patches you can glue down a thin layer of foam and then glass over it here is a link to that method
http://www.kayakmind.com/profiles/blogs ... n-burke-c1

boatbuster · Post by **boatbuster** » Fri May 07, 2010 6:28 pm

I am going to take your word for it and not even try. Now I am just waiting for the guy I loaned my old C-1 to nine months ago to bring it back so I can use the insert and saddle and straps from that boat.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:36 pm

xmas0c1c1k1 wrote: http://www.kayakmind.com/profiles/blogs ... n-burke-c1

interesting..
I suppose d-rings could be plastic welded to a hull similar to how they are glassed in to a composite hull. Has anyone tried that?

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Fri May 07, 2010 8:22 pm

Larry Horne wrote:
xmas0c1c1k1 wrote: http://www.kayakmind.com/profiles/blogs ... n-burke-c1
interesting..
I suppose d-rings could be plastic welded to a hull similar to how they are glassed in to a composite hull. Has anyone tried that?

If I not mistaken seen some pictures of some team ETC setup where they pretty much glue a big sheet of plastic doing the whole boat's center portion with anchor points drilled in it... The size of the sheet was making for success here I guess...

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:31 pm

Well that's a neat idea. It just may work too.

marclamenace wrote:If I not mistaken seen some pictures of some team ETC setup where they pretty much glue a big sheet of plastic doing the whole boat's center portion with anchor points drilled in it... The size of the sheet was making for success here I guess...

The Team ETC plate is not glued to the boat. It's attached w/ screws in the holes that used to hold the K-1 stuff. There is no modification to the boat at all.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri May 07, 2010 11:39 pm

i thought...

(repeating "xmas0c1c1k1" from this thread)

from the pic and directions in that-(this)-link Dan Burke mentioned contact cementing a thin layer of minicell. And then glassing in a composite bottom w/ d-ring to that. And then doing your choice of outfitting on top of that.

So (just) extrapolating

maybe you could instead, do the same however on bottom of a saddle. Where you could reinforce the bottom complete with a d-ring setup using composite material - which would be transferable from boat to boat. The D-Ring in essence would be attached to length of the bottom of the saddle, and coming up either side. A couple d-rings sewn into an appropriate length of tubular webbing, and then 'glassed' into the bottom layers.

...of course that would just start outfitting a C1, where in a HPDE open canoe it might be another option for those desiring no bulkhead.

xmas0c1c1k1 · Post by **xmas0c1c1k1** » Sat May 08, 2010 3:10 am

I haven't tried this glassing method yet, but I am about to try it in an older boat and see how it goes I will let yall know how it goes (this will be my first real composite project so it could go very bad). If I have any knack for working with composites I am hoping to start messing around with pedestal designs, but time is very shorthanded right now so it may be awhile till I get to any big project like that.

cbcboat · Post by **cbcboat** » Sat May 08, 2010 3:11 am

If you happen to have access to old dead hulle you can cut out a piece, attache all the outfitting to it (used bolts or whate have you),I have then bolt that to the insied of the good hull. Thats what I have been doing and it works pretty good. Also can be moved beetween boats.

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... outfitting

WaveRhydr · Post by **WaveRhydr** » Sat May 08, 2010 2:10 pm

Instead of glue I suggested hardware. Others brought up ways to do it, and rightly suggested that having a backing to screw into was needed. I agree. Good ideas.

If you have a "hollow" sit on top, and cant reach inside to put a backing in place to hold screws, and dont want to either cut the hull to do so, or go around the world to fabricate something, I could only come up with one crazy sounding idea.

Ok, if this has been attempted and found to not work dont laugh too hard, but what about expanding wall anchors? Someone will prolly point out that they have weight limits. They do, however I think thats based on how much weight the drywall would hold, not the anchors. Below is a link to show anyone not familar with them what they look like.

http://www.azardisplays.com/productcart ... 8p2007.htm

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Mon May 10, 2010 4:59 am

but nobody here is outfitting a sit-on-top

WaveRhydr · Post by **WaveRhydr** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:29 am

Well darn, Larry. You are right. After going over the posts again I dont know how I got my wires that crossed. Opps.

C-Forum

Question: Gluing vinyl D-ring patches to pe kayak hull

Question: Gluing vinyl D-ring patches to pe kayak hull

Perhaps look at the attachment system on the dagger torrent?

Thanks guys for saving me $40!

Crazy idea