Viper 11 Outfitting question.

[drrpm]

I have a Viper and I'm wondering if the saddle is mounted correctly. According to the Mohawk site the distance from the back deck plate to the saddle should be 39 1/4 inches and on my boat it's 43 inches. By the hipbones 4 inches behind the centerline method it's correct where it is.
It doesn't feel bow heavy to me but my paddling buddies say they think it may be a little bow heavy.

I would like to avoid having to tear everything out and redo it. Should the saddle really be back 4 more inches?

[pblanc]

I just measured mine. My Viper 11 was factory outfitted and seems neutrally trimmed to me. The method I used to check is to balance the boat on a 2' x 6" placed underneath it transversely at the midpoint. When I kneel in the boat upright the stems are both off the ground. If I lean forward a bit, the front stem drops and if I lean back the rear stem drops.

On my boat I measured the distance from the rear deck plate (the end closest to the center of the boat) to the back edge of the minicell pedestal at 39 1/2" The front edge of the back deck plate sort of angles forward a bit (it is not square) so depending on exactly where I place my carpenter's rule it could be 39 1/4".

I usually have pedestals placed so that my hip bones wind up 4 1/2" behind the centerline of symmetrical hulls. I can't account for why yours measures what it does, unless the pedestal itself is a different length. Has the pedestal conceivably been reshaped so that you are sitting further back on it than usual?

[drrpm]

The pedestal looks stock. It's 59.5 inches from the stern to the back of the pedestal. The canoe is 138 inches long, center at 69, hips at 73, back of pedestal 78.5 from the bow. That all seems reasonably close to what it should be. Were there different deck plates or is that boat supposed to be paddled bow light?

[2opnboat1]

What year is your boat, a few years ago I change the placement of the outfitting in the Viper. So if the boats your friends are comparing yours to will ride in the water different.

[drrpm]

I believe that it's a 2011. Those are the last 4 digits in the serial number.

[2opnboat1]

Then it is right if you think you are bow heavy shave a little off the back stop on the ped.

[drrpm]

Thanks,
I need to make some adjustments to the outfitting and I figured that it would be better to make sure everything was correctly placed as a starting point.

[pblanc]

The pedestal looks stock. It's 59.5 inches from the stern to the back of the pedestal. The canoe is 138 inches long, center at 69, hips at 73, back of pedestal 78.5 from the bow. That all seems reasonably close to what it should be. Were there different deck plates or is that boat supposed to be paddled bow light?

The deck plates on my boat are 18" long, measured down the longitudinal center line of the boat. The distance from the back of the pedestal to the tip of the stern stem is 57.5" and from the back of the pedestal to the tip of the bow stem I get 81". The thickness from the back edge of the pedestal to the seat cut out is about 4 1/2".

If my boat is neutrally trimmed (and I think it is) I suspect yours is a couple of inches bow heavy. Is it possible that you are mistaking the transverse center line of the boat? I'm sure you know this but you can't go by decal placement or gunwale rivet locations as these are often not centered.

I have also found that trying to find the transverse center line by running a steel tape from tip of stem to tip of stem and then bisecting it isn't always precise either as the rising sheer of the boat places the tape several inches above the gunwales at midships. What I do is to put a piece of masking tape on top of each gunwale and mark the estimated center point on it using the "bisect the overall length" method. I then check this by having someone anchor the end of the steel tape right at the tip of the front stem and measure the distance directly to the mark on the gunwale, then go to the back stem and see if the measurement is identical. For a symmetrical hull with symmetrical sheer it should be. If not, adjust the mark position and remeasure till it is ( I have found that my estimated center mark is sometimes off by an inch or so). Repeat on the other side, then clamp a straightedge to the gunwales so that one side of it is right on the marks. The center of the hull bottom can be marked pretty precisely by putting the boat on a level surface and dropping a plumb bob off the straight edge.

[ezwater]

pblanc's reasoning and methods sound right to me. The Viper design is one where having it a bit bow down is not going to work. On some strange designs like my old Mad River Synergy (very swedeform), it can paddle better biased toward the bow, though a little wetter.

It also depends on paddling style. I tend to lean forward a bit when paddling harder, so with a boat like the Viper, it might be better to start just a hair bow "up" for when I'm sitting up straight and cruising.

My Millbrook Big Boy is somewhat fishform, and photos of me on the water showed it bow up. So I moved the pedestal forward to level the boat, but that seemed to spoil the handling. So I emailed B. Connolly the designer, and he said it paddled better with the seat back where it was at first.

It's easier with symmetrical hulls. With asymmetrical hulls, the company or designer recommendations may be right or wrong. Connolly was right on, but for the Synergy, Mad River had suggested a tandem setup that was way too forward. Expect some cut and try.

[2opnboat1]

You guys make this way more complicated than it needs to be. If you measure from the inboard edge of the deck to the front of the ped. the measurement should be 391/4.

[pblanc]

If his boat has a stock Mohawk pedestal. Do we know for sure that is the case?

Assuming his pedestal is stock, by that method it is over 3 1/2" too far forward. It is kind of hard to reconcile that with his hip bone being 4 inches aft of center, no?

My pedestal is a stock Mohawk and is placed as you recommend (within 1/4") and my hip joint winds up centered 4 1/2" aft of center.

[2opnboat1]

drrpm we dont do any measuring from the back deck plate everything is measured from the back of the front deck.

[pblanc]

Well that is what I get, Richard, when I measure from the back edge of the front deck plate to the front edge of the pedestal (39 1/4"). As it turns out, the distance from the front edge of the rear deck plate to the rear edge of the pedestal is almost identical (39 1/2").

[2opnboat1]

Learn something new every day out of the 100 or so I have outfitted in the last few years I have never measured from the back deck.

[pblanc]

I agree that is the proper placement assuming one wants a neutrally trimmed boat. But assuming that drrpm has the same (stock Mohawk) pedestal that I do, his pedestal is 3 1/2" forward of that placement, which would make his boat significantly bow heavy.