Tow tether suggestions.
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Re: Tow tether suggestions.
" I got mixed up in AWWSR course last week, at one point whilst practising setting up a livebait in minimum time (we were given 10 seconds, and generally failed to do it in 10) I realized that it can take a good few seconds to undo a screwgate and thread it around a tight chest harness - grabbing a snap krab on a cowstail and clipping it to a line would have been much faster - none of the candidates were wearing cowtails though - perhaps modern WWSR thinking is the same as yours?"
You are right. Cowtail and throwbag with knot is much faster for rescue never than "clean rope" and chest harness
You are right. Cowtail and throwbag with knot is much faster for rescue never than "clean rope" and chest harness
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- C Guru
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Re: Tow tether suggestions.
Non-locking biners, and locking screwgate biners that you forget to lock, can and do snap to things unintentionally.
Autolocking biners are the least prone to unintentional clipping because you can't forget to lock them, they lock themselves by default. Some say autolockers are inferior, but in practice I have always found them to be superior to screwgates.
I have seen first hand an instance of a screwgate on a climbing anchor becoming unlocked due to friction/motion against another biner. I had heard that was possible, but didn't really believe it until I saw it myself. I watched it unscrew itself. I've never seen or heard of an autolocker doing that. If the locking barrel on an autolocker did get partially opened due to friction/motion, the internal spring should re-close it once the friction was released.
I have had multiple instances (in rock/ice climbing situations) where the locking barrel on a screwgate jammed so badly that it could not be spun. In one instance my climbing partner got locked to an anchor because the screwgate on his umbilical sling jammed in the closed position. The other end of the sling was girth hitched to his harness, so he could not free himself from the anchor. He had to use his cigarette lighter to burn the sling apart.
In a few decades of using autolockers in the same gritty/icy conditions that have caused some of my screwgates to jam, I've never had any type of failure with an autolocker. They are also much quicker to use than screwgates, no comparison there.
I use single action autolockers, that require only a twist of the barrel to unlock. Never had a need for the more complicated ones that require multiple actions to unlock.
Autolocking biners are the least prone to unintentional clipping because you can't forget to lock them, they lock themselves by default. Some say autolockers are inferior, but in practice I have always found them to be superior to screwgates.
I have seen first hand an instance of a screwgate on a climbing anchor becoming unlocked due to friction/motion against another biner. I had heard that was possible, but didn't really believe it until I saw it myself. I watched it unscrew itself. I've never seen or heard of an autolocker doing that. If the locking barrel on an autolocker did get partially opened due to friction/motion, the internal spring should re-close it once the friction was released.
I have had multiple instances (in rock/ice climbing situations) where the locking barrel on a screwgate jammed so badly that it could not be spun. In one instance my climbing partner got locked to an anchor because the screwgate on his umbilical sling jammed in the closed position. The other end of the sling was girth hitched to his harness, so he could not free himself from the anchor. He had to use his cigarette lighter to burn the sling apart.
In a few decades of using autolockers in the same gritty/icy conditions that have caused some of my screwgates to jam, I've never had any type of failure with an autolocker. They are also much quicker to use than screwgates, no comparison there.
I use single action autolockers, that require only a twist of the barrel to unlock. Never had a need for the more complicated ones that require multiple actions to unlock.
Re: Tow tether suggestions.
Jakke
- I doubt if a krab to a shoulder strap would be significantly worse, we run a throwline over the shoulder in recovery position after all. I'm trying to remember if when we first started using chest harnesses we had strong webbing straps for shoulder straps - I think a few designs did but probably a lot of shoulder straps would have snapped under a high load!
- Self belay was convenient with my old HF telescopic cowstail, the elasticated one requires a sling to go around anything anyway so the advantage is much reduced. It does provide a possibility to clip yourself into an anchor already being used for a fixed line, but I can't say I've ever needed to do that on the river
- Never really considered the risk of clipping things by mistake with a snap krab, mostly the issue climbers have with unclipping by mistake or partly unclipping reducing the strength. It is worth thinking about, as is NickPaker's point regarding using auto-locking krabs.
Is it now being taught to not use a cowstail?
You may have realized that although I got involved with the AWWSR I have never even taken the basic course! I did have a hand in designing similar courses for my club around 20 years ago before the WWSR existed and have refined my approach considerably over the years, but I am definitely not up to speed with some of the latest theories.
- I doubt if a krab to a shoulder strap would be significantly worse, we run a throwline over the shoulder in recovery position after all. I'm trying to remember if when we first started using chest harnesses we had strong webbing straps for shoulder straps - I think a few designs did but probably a lot of shoulder straps would have snapped under a high load!
- Self belay was convenient with my old HF telescopic cowstail, the elasticated one requires a sling to go around anything anyway so the advantage is much reduced. It does provide a possibility to clip yourself into an anchor already being used for a fixed line, but I can't say I've ever needed to do that on the river
- Never really considered the risk of clipping things by mistake with a snap krab, mostly the issue climbers have with unclipping by mistake or partly unclipping reducing the strength. It is worth thinking about, as is NickPaker's point regarding using auto-locking krabs.
Is it now being taught to not use a cowstail?
You may have realized that although I got involved with the AWWSR I have never even taken the basic course! I did have a hand in designing similar courses for my club around 20 years ago before the WWSR existed and have refined my approach considerably over the years, but I am definitely not up to speed with some of the latest theories.
Re: Tow tether suggestions.
fair point about the self locking carabs. On the other hand, how's the handling of these things with cold & wet hands? Screwgates can unscrew or being forgotten to lock. But some people might never had an autolock carab in their hands (I'm one of those), and might not now how to handle it?
Jim, the clipping onto stuff, unwillingly is a real and realistic hazzard. Ask one of the guys maybe to show you a couple of usecases. it is indeed part of the basic wws&r course.
Cowtails are a bit of anissue, and it depends on who you talk to. I've been tought to use a cowtail in my ACA trainings, and many ACA instructors, even OC1, still use them. I know of very few, not to say none, BCU trained paddlers nor instructors that paddle OC1 and use a cowtail. I haven't gone through official ACA or R3 trainings, so I don't know what's their current opinion on cowtails.
But concepts like clean lines, no snapgates and stuff like that is quite common in whitewater safety and rescue nowadays I think.
Jim, the clipping onto stuff, unwillingly is a real and realistic hazzard. Ask one of the guys maybe to show you a couple of usecases. it is indeed part of the basic wws&r course.
Cowtails are a bit of anissue, and it depends on who you talk to. I've been tought to use a cowtail in my ACA trainings, and many ACA instructors, even OC1, still use them. I know of very few, not to say none, BCU trained paddlers nor instructors that paddle OC1 and use a cowtail. I haven't gone through official ACA or R3 trainings, so I don't know what's their current opinion on cowtails.
But concepts like clean lines, no snapgates and stuff like that is quite common in whitewater safety and rescue nowadays I think.
Re: Tow tether suggestions.
Autolock krabs are easier to operate than screwgate, usually twist and slide without needing to change hand position and probably quicker to work out if you have never seen it before than undoing a screwgate.
I can see how you could get accidentally clipped with a snap, but in over 20 years I can't recall it happening on the water. Isn't that part of the reason to carry a knife?
I can see how you could get accidentally clipped with a snap, but in over 20 years I can't recall it happening on the water. Isn't that part of the reason to carry a knife?
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- C Guru
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Re: Tow tether suggestions.
I find autolockers to be easier and quicker to use than screwgates. I think the "acid test" for carabiner use is ice climbing. Stiff cold wet hands (sometimes to a brutal degree) and thick gloves are the norm. I've done a fair amount of it, and my belay biners and my anchor masterpoint biners are always autolockers. That's because I can open an autolocker, with one cold gloved hand, easier than I can a screwgate. As for locking, there is no comparison, the autolocker locks itself.jakke wrote:... self locking carabs ... how's the handling of these things with cold & wet hands? ... some people might never had an autolock carab in their hands (I'm one of those), and might not now how to handle it?...
If you decide to give autolockers a try (and I think you should), be mindful of the type you select. Some require multiple actions to open the gate. Those have their place, like in industrial safety applications, but I find them to be unnecessarily cumbersome for climbing and river uses. The single action variety, that require only a simple twist of the barrel to unlock, are what I use. Here's some I would recommend:
DMM Aero HMS Quicklock (not the Safelock model, it requires multiple actions to open)
Black Diamond Rocklock TwistLock
Omega Pacific Jake (or Jake Jr.) Quik-Lok
I have a couple of DMM autolockers that I have had for well over 20 years (closer to 30?). I still use them, they have never given me any problems.
You can find many discussions that include the "conventional wisdom" that screwgates are more reliable than autolockers. What I have not found is any documentation or tests to back up that claim. My experience includes multiple failures of screwgates that jammed, but not a single problem with autolockers, in the exact same conditions.
I liken that "conventional wisdom" to the myth of microfractures in dropped carabiners. You can find a ton of references that say carabiners dropped on hard surfaces must be retired due to the possibility of microfractures from the impact. What you won't find are any test reports that verify the myth is true. That myth has persisted for a very long time, despite studies (by Black Diamond and REI) that say otherwise. It's not necessarily a harmful myth, but it IS a myth.
- the great gonzo
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Re: Tow tether suggestions.
The fastes and most reliable autolock biners I have found are the BD Magnetron biners. As fast to use as a snapgate, failsafe autolock mechanism and the mechanism does not get messed up by sand or rust. While the twistlocks I previously used on my flip line were done after about 6 month of daily professional use, my first Magnetron is now over a year old and functions still as reliably as on the first day. I replaced all my screwgates with Magnetrons.
As far as tow thethers are concerned, I use them on a regular basis when I guide in Mexico and Costa rica. I have a 53" NRS tow that I retrofitted with a Magnetron biner (Don't like snap gates in a WW environement due to the accidental snagging/clipping risk). It works well for me for towing at the bottom of big rapids and/or in class 1-2 rapids with either one of my short boats (Big Dog Force or Pyranha Prelude). In a long boat I'll add my flipline to the thether for it to clear the stern.
TGG!
As far as tow thethers are concerned, I use them on a regular basis when I guide in Mexico and Costa rica. I have a 53" NRS tow that I retrofitted with a Magnetron biner (Don't like snap gates in a WW environement due to the accidental snagging/clipping risk). It works well for me for towing at the bottom of big rapids and/or in class 1-2 rapids with either one of my short boats (Big Dog Force or Pyranha Prelude). In a long boat I'll add my flipline to the thether for it to clear the stern.
TGG!
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau
Re: Tow tether suggestions.
Needed a couple carabs to make clean ends on my throwlines, and they happened to have those BD Magnetron carabs. I took 2 to try them. I like them for sure better then the twist-locks. We'll find out I suppose .
Autolock
I bought an autolock today, a BD Mag. It's a new idea to me.
It wasn't cheap and it is a little heavy but I like the action. I'll give it try out on the tether.
In real time I have had a clip gate catch on floatation lacing on the canoe, but not in a threatening situation, and have had screwgates jam more than once.
It wasn't cheap and it is a little heavy but I like the action. I'll give it try out on the tether.
In real time I have had a clip gate catch on floatation lacing on the canoe, but not in a threatening situation, and have had screwgates jam more than once.
Paddling is easy, organizing shuttles is hard.
Not misplacing all your crap in somebody else's car seems to be even harder
Not misplacing all your crap in somebody else's car seems to be even harder
Re: Tow tether suggestions.
I also went out and picked up a BD Magnetron yesterday as I was impressed with the ease of one handed manipulation. Thanks for the recommendation, Gonzo.