Question re. Royalex deterioration over many years

[canoeman61]

I am considering buying a boat that is probably 18 to 20 years old and has been rarely paddled and stored indoors. The owner wants a high price for it, and I am concerned that even though the boat looks like new, the Royalex may have deteriorated over all that time. Thoughts?

[dixie_boater]

I have a 26 year old Whitesell Piranha that has been stored indoors since it was purchased. Despite limited use the hull has deteriorated. It has become stiff and cracks when the boat hits rocks, particularly on the stern and chine areas. The Royalex has become brittle with age. Unless you intend to use the canoe on flatwater, class I or II runs and won't strike many rocks, I would not purchase the boat. Especially if the owner will not lower the price. With the demise of royalex the prices for used boats has gone up, but not all canoes are worth the high prices.

[milkman]

Definitely could be brittle plastic, but it's hard to predict/know. A friend who posts on this site bought an old Outrage that had been stored in a barn and it cracked readily when making contact with rocks. On the other hand, I have a 1992 Genesis I use for solo tripping and I took it on the Middle Fork of the Salmon last year on a bony late August run. Hit some rocks pretty good, but no cracking or other issues. I'm sure others have had similar experiences--some old boats are brittle, others seem to hold up better. They may be other factors involved. Such as how humid/arid the climate is where the boat is stored, how hot/cold the garage or barn gets, etc.

[ezwater]

I'm in the middle on this. I think one could rationally buy a 20 year old Royalex boat that has not been beaten to death, and use it for 10 more years on class 1-2, not paddling stupidly.

But you have to want that boat, that hull. I would buy back my OT Tripper because it was such a great tandem for easy whitewater. But I wouldn't buy an old OCA because, while the Royalex was top notch, the hull design was just so-so.

[canoeman61]

Thank you to those who have taken the time to respond to this post. Based on Dixieboater's response I am now thinking this boat is over 20 years old, since it is a Whitesell I am considering. I also should note that if I buy this boat I am planning on using it on Class III and IV water, maybe even IV+ so I am quite wary of paying a lot for it. I have a L'Edge but I need a replacement hull for my Outrage which is getting hammered. My experience with older Royalex is it is generally tougher than more recent versions, but I have also bought old hulls that have delaminated and cracked. i would welcome more feedback or experiences of others.

[milkman]

As many might attest, there were a lot of problems with Royalex after about 2001. One of the things I experienced was cracking of the outer vinyl layer on the inside of the hull. This happened to several Phantoms I owed and an Ocoee.

A bunch of us in Oregon also bought the last round of Dagger Dimensions that were made. We put in an order for 8 of them. I think this was in 2003. They were a lighter Royalex and there was lots of delamination problems, particularly for those that used their boats shortly after getting them. I was able to garage mine for about two years before outfitting and using it. It seems that curing time helped. I have one of the few boats that hasn't delaminated. Either that or I was lucky. The
Royalex is definitely lighter than the older Dimension I used to own.

Another older boat I own is a Dagger Legend. It's a 1996 and is made of the thicker Royalex. It's the boat I most often use for tripping because it holds so much gear. This boat is a tank in terms of toughness.

Last year, I picked up a 1997 Dagger Dimension. It is made of a lighter layup than the Legend. So one year later, Dagger was using apparently thinner sheets.

I don't think I'd buy any pre-90s Royalex canoes, but I think I'd take a risk on most 90s boats as long as the price was reasonable. And I'd carry duct tape with me always just in case of a crack.

[JimW]

I think the last owner of my Ocoee got it in about 1997, but I'm not sure if he bought it new or second hand. I don't have any problems with brittleness but the yellow vinyl does wear away if I scrape over anything. I've been mostly using it on class 3, I suppose some of those waterfalls are class 4-ish though.

I hired a Whitesell Piranha for the Grand Canyon, I didn't notice a problem with brittleness, but there was evidence that the core had been 'creased' in a few places for want of a better description. The hull shape was just fine, but every now and then the inner vinyl would dip into a little valley for a few inches - a few of these ran behind anchor points allowing sand in behind them, although I'm sure the reason they came unstuck was more to do with being glued onto sand rather than it running in later.
As far as I know that boat is stored indoors most of the year and gets 2 or 3 trips per year (2 weeks in the sun each trip), but the chance of it ever hitting rocks is really low so degradation is not a serious issue, it certainly felt stiff enough on the water and the one time we portaged it (Upset, I lined it down left of Lava).

Some people do seem to have unrealistic expectations on the value of their boats!

Are you able to look before you buy?

[canoeman61]

Some people do seem to have unrealistic expectations on the value of their boats!

Are you able to look before you buy?

You got that right, JimW. Yes, I will definitely look at it and get the exact age before I make an offer. I wonder if it is possible to tell by flexion the hull how brittle or not it is?

I have heard full-sized Whitesells were made of extra tough Royalex and that seems to be the case with one I am getting ready to buy…it is in awesome shape. The high-dollar one I am looking at, however, is on sale for four times as much as the Pyranha!

[hazardharry]

i just bought 2 1996 mohawk solo 13/14 $250 each for me and wifey. they were stored outside in the sun and have faded to a toasted pinkish white. they are R84 [royalite?]. they are going to be used for light tripping in nothing bigger than classII. i put 2 can each of krylon plasticoat paint them. i drilled out tug eyes to add proper grab loops floating painter. theR84 material still felt lively when drilled.

[Blackhawk]

I don't know; maybe I'm just lucky?

My Whitesell Piranha, the Mad River Flashback, and the Perception HD 1 that I've previously owned, are certainly old school Royalex. I never had any issues with any of them.

I know the Flashback is used regularly; still no issues.
Don't know about the HD 1, but think the current owner would have said something to me if he'd had issues.

Obviously, others were not so lucky.

And yes, I agree some sellers are overpricing some Royalex boats.

BOB

[MarkT]

If you are unsure of how old the hull is check the serial number plate on the right side of the stern. The last two digits are the year it was made. Last year I bought an Outrage that was made in '96. I was concerned about it being brittle too. Hasn't turned out that way. Plus with the poorer quality Mad River boats being made by Confluence, i feel I got the superior product. I told the guy I was buying it from about my concern of being brittle and he came down on the price.

[ohioboater]

I have a Caption from 94 and a Dimension from 89. They both are built like tanks. I wouldn't and don't hesitate to take them on 'real' whitewater. The Caption just survived a LY trip this past week with two paddlers in it who hadn't tandemed in probably 25 years - lots of full to the gunwales, backwards boulder pinball lines . No noticeable wear on it at all from that.

[OC1_PDLR]

I just picked up a '98 Ovation and drilled the hull for airbag lacing. The Royalex didn't seem any different where I was drilling than it does on newer hulls I've drilled.

[canoeman61]

I just picked up a '98 Ovation and drilled the hull for airbag lacing. The Royalex didn't seem any different where I was drilling than it does on newer hulls I've drilled.

Wait until you hit rocks….with the newer hulls, I mean. Royalex has not been the same since Confluence Kayak Corp took over Mad River canoe and started cranking out crappy fragile hulls. Glad they are done and I hope Esquif or someone who knows something about canoes will pick up the molds and continue to manufacture these classic designs, whatever material they use.