Lost my Roll

[Danny]

So this is the most frustrating thing, I'm pretty new to OC but 2 summers ago I had a pretty bomber pool roll and even hit a few on the river under pressure. I'd go out and roll 20-30 times in the pool and felt really comfortable. Last summer I couldn't paddle and this year I'm getting back out some, but my roll has left the building. I've reviewed lots of videos and notes I've saved, and I just can't get it back. Once in a while I get lucky , but for the most part it's failure. When I compare videos of from 2 summers ago vs today's flops I'll be darned if I can pick out the problems. This seems a little like forgetting how to ride a bike! This ever happen to anyone? Love to hear your favorite que's and focus's when you roll. Perhaps something will snap me back to the surface.

[sbroam]

Can you post any video of your recent roll practice? When I lose mine its because I start using only my arms and leave out the legs. I think we focus on and talk the most about the arm motions and it's easy to make that mistake. The other obvious ones are raising your head early and (especially in OC-1) rushing things.

But... as Yogi would have said if he was a paddler - "Rolling is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical."

[keez]

Danny; 9x's out of 10 it's because your bringing your head up too fast. Make sure you read the logo on the side of the boat at your hips (I think that's why they put it there).

[Einar]

no hero here, I lose mine every season. Each year I add on a new excuse but the recurring one is... I don't like being upside down in a river and speed up to end that.

Most sports reward increasing the speed as a good, successful thing but for me faster rolling results in a crappy unfinished & inefficient set up in crappy adverse water with my head getting ahead of the hull rotation cause I don't want to be where I am. When i force myself to slow down I get my roll back.

Also for me, pool rolling is good starter but soon works against me. I get rolling in the warm pool, I feel confident and "up", I take it to the river, I feel cold, trashed, panicked and want up Right Now, speed up and blow it.
I took ww session with Eli recently and discussing rolls his first question was, "Do you practice your roll in the pool or practice in the River". In the river, practice where you preach.

50% physical, 90% mental about sums it up, for me.

[Pierre LaPaddelle]

. . . 50% physical, 90% mental about sums it up, for me.

For most of us, methinks!

[JimW]

I'm not a great person to advise because I don't really have an OC1 roll, but since the new artificial WW course opened up near me I've been using it once a week which is really helping dial my paddling in. Now I've always been one to try rolling whenever possible even if I can't, and the last couple of sessions I've made some successful rolls in the flow, and then when I tried in the basin after the water was turned off it worked there too. The key thing is, that it has been about 9 months since I last actually went out to do any roll training (without success), I've just got it as a result of becoming more at one with my boat, and having a go when I capsize and hoping for the best.

I have previously had a C1 roll (and it seems I can still roll C1), and as keez says, usually my failures back then were due to bringing my head up too soon. In a C1 I try to keep my head on the deck, in OC1 I try to keep it on the airbag and I'm pretty sure lifting my head too early is a big factor when I fail in OC1 too.

The head isn't the only element though, there is a point where you need to push really hard with the far knee and slide your body relatively quickly (keeping the head down) across to the centreline - the weird thing is that the paddle seems to be redundant in this phase, I seem to be recovering it at the same time.....

So, um - my main tip is to try and find somewhere relatively safe that you can push your paddling, and see if that helps your roll.....

[Danny]

Thanks for the advice guys. I did have better luck when I focused on keeping my head in the water as long as possible and the skill of looking at the decal on the side of the boat. My son kayaks and he offered that I am bringing my head up too soon as well. " its all about the head" he offered. Seems like ill need a ton of time on the water before rolling becomes natural. I like the idea of practicing rolling on the river and I wish I had a convenient option. Perhaps I gotta paddle to the middle of the lake so if I swim I have a long swim to shore as a consequence. No fear factor , but a pain in the butt! I get the 90% mental thought. Back when I had a bomber pool roll, I never even thought about the possibility of not pulling it off so I nearly always hit the first and if I did screw up the first attempt I knew I'd hit the second.

Someone needs to produce a current How To video. I've got Bob Footes , but I'd like to hear from some current paddlers too. I know lots of kayakers that have learned to roll from Jackson's Bracing and Rolling video.

Do any of you have both a kayak and OC-1 roll? I'm curious which is easier to master?

[JimW]

Do any of you have both a kayak and OC-1 roll? I'm curious which is easier to master?

It took me years to learn to roll a kayak with minimal instruction, as a teenager in a fairly dirty lake, about 25 years ago. I only really nailed it when I started going to pool sessions and then it came on quickly. C1 I have been dabbling in for around 20 years, I got the roll more quickly than the kayak roll but I started learning in a pool right away so I really can't make a comparison. After about 15 years of not paddling a C1 my C1 roll was about 50/50. OC1 I have been doing for less than 2 years, but only really tried rolling about 18 months ago for a few sessions (on a much bigger lake, but in shallow water) before I went to the Grand Canyon (seemed like it might be a useful skill there) - I didn't get it then, but as I say it has started to come to me just through paddling (throwing the boat around a lot) over last 6 weeks with virtually no practise in between (one afternoon in a pool).

If I were to add up all the time spent practising in different boats it would look like OC1 was easiest, followed by C1 followed by Kayak, but that I'm sure has a lot to do with the amount and type of coaching I had at different times (although very little on OC1, I mostly just plugged away with my C1 roll). When I was university I used coach within the club (mainly kayak, but it is where I learned to roll C1, there were like 4 of us out of about 70 interested in C1), rolling a kayak was on every beginners tick list. I found that with a good complete beginner with no preconceptions, I could sometimes teach them to screw roll a kayak in the first hour - at the same time it was taking me a few months to learn to roll C1.

My thoughts are that if starting either completely from scratch with the same quality of coaching and advice, the kayak is easier to learn to roll.
I can roll a kayak about 10 different ways, I can only get a C1 or an OC1 up one way (although I know of at least 3!)

There is almost certainly some crossover, and learing one will help with the others.

[chuck naill]

I agree, most likely lifting your head. Focus on the hip twist rather than arms.

[GSG]

Someone needs to produce a current How To video. I've got Bob Footes , but I'd like to hear from some current paddlers too. I know lots of kayakers that have learned to roll from Jackson's Bracing and Rolling video.

Not sure that's necessary, this is my favorite for analyzing technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktZB6_30HA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't imagine learning from videos alone though. Get someone to hold your hand... literally. Have someone join you in the shallows at the lake, toss the paddle and just use your hands on theirs to get the motion. get it to the point where you only need to lightly push off their hands to roll up and then try rolling on your own with the paddle. This is how I was taught, I was rolling within an hour.

[McPherson]

Have you seen Philip Prince's videos? I used to have a "power through it" kind of roll. These helped me to refine my technique for a much more reliable, and easier on the shoulder, type of roll.

http://vimeo.com/29642417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://vimeo.com/29704063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://vimeo.com/37899962" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[busterblue]

Not sure that's necessary, this is my favorite for analyzing technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktZB6_30HA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That 70s video holds up really well! I hadn't seen it before. Thanks for posting it.

[hazardharry]

http://youtu.be/ePAQY__46_Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[yarnellboat]

That 70s video holds up really well! I hadn't seen it before. Thanks for posting it.

Ditto. Really good. My favourite part was when he referred to "kayakists".

The Philip Prince videos have to be the gold standard of the thousands of videos available. In my opinion, that's really good instruction for canoe rolling, not sure what else there could be to add.

Keep your face down (not just your head - don't be tempted to rotate your face/shoulders towards the bow), P.

[Paddle Power]

Philip Prince's rolling videos are great.