Pépé - An extra wide slalom C1

[Matt Fritz]

29" wide at the widest and about 10" deep at the deepest.

The min width for slalom c1s is the same as kayaks now at 23.6".

[Roy]

Thanks for the depth/width.

Can you explain the numbers on the cross-section diagrams?

How would you feel about someone using your lines as the basis of a somewhat-modified design? A new, large, C-1 is about #3 on my boat-building to-do list.

Roy

[JimW]

Excellent - I'm quite jealous, my next trip is September next year but I want to be there now!

Lava Vee wave seems to be the luck of the draw whether it backloops you or not, but getting flipped closer to the cheese grater must focus the mind somewhat!
Last time I was there it was low and there was no Vee wave, just 3 holes offset at odd angles conspiring to push anyone not on a perfect line over towards the cheese grater - being in an OC1 I opted to line it rather than take the inevitable scary swim (or worse).

Still trying to decide what boat to take next year, OC1, kayak playboat or get the hang of C1, and then should I take a slalom boat or a playboat or a creek boat....

[Matt Fritz]

Roy,

On the cross sections, the first number is the slice number in the stack. Each slice is 2 1/8" thick. I would take cross sections every 8 1/2" typically, but on sections of the boat that have more curvature, I take cross sections every 4 1/4". Zero is the tip of the bow and 77 is the tip of the stern. The second number is the vertical offset of the cross section. I set up a string parallel to the centerline of the deck about 5 inches above it. Sorry I don't have a picture. The vertical offset is the measurement from the string to the deck. This offset is then used to locate the cross section on the poster board. You can see a mark on the poster board for the location of the string.

Id be glad to help with a modified design. I did a lot of shaping by hand after all of the cross sections were glued together so I don't have the lines for Pepe yet.

What modifications did you have in mind to suit your needs? Would you use the lines to make a plug and then make a mold, or would you try my one off method?

[Matt Fritz]

Jim,

This is what Lava looked like when I was there. We think it was about 12000cfs, but not sure. Our trip leader, the guy in the red race kayak in the front, has done the grand 20 times and said he's never see Lava this chaotic. In the picture, I had not flipped yet. I was driving left as hard as I could, but didn't make it left of the next breaking wave.

[Matt Fritz]

In this picture, I'm rolling up after I was knocked over. The v-wave got the kayaker behind me.

[JimW]

Oh right, I think it must have changed between 2007 and 2013 then because that looks more like a bigger version of what we had at around 8000cfs (I think) in 2013 than what we had at around 10000cfs in 2004 and 2007 where the Vee wave stretched from the edge of the ledge hole to the right bank - it seems much less defined these days and broken up into smaller stickier holes towards the far right. There were always some holes below it but I remember they all seemed to flush.

We had 2 C1's in 2004, I think Gwyn (Ashcroft, Shaggy Designs) got through upright in his high cut Sith, Chris Bolton in a converted Redline needed a roll after the Vee wave but was able to get clear of the holes on the right towards the cheese grater. I smashed my shoulder climbing in Matkatamiba that trip so was on a raft, but I kayaked it in 2007 and then potaged it with the canoe in 2013.

Well done - it's defintiely living up to its grade a bit more these days

[Roy]

Roy,

On the cross sections, the first number is the slice number in the stack. Each slice is 2 1/8" thick. I would take cross sections every 8 1/2" typically, but on sections of the boat that have more curvature, I take cross sections every 4 1/4". Zero is the tip of the bow and 77 is the tip of the stern. The second number is the vertical offset of the cross section. I set up a string parallel to the centerline of the deck about 5 inches above it. Sorry I don't have a picture. The vertical offset is the measurement from the string to the deck. This offset is then used to locate the cross section on the poster board. You can see a mark on the poster board for the location of the string.

Id be glad to help with a modified design. I did a lot of shaping by hand after all of the cross sections were glued together so I don't have the lines for Pepe yet.

What modifications did you have in mind to suit your needs? Would you use the lines to make a plug and then make a mold, or would you try my one off method?

Thanks Matt,

I think all I really need is your cross sections...that I pulled from the first page of posts. I just wanted to get your OK to use them.

Believe it or not, I'll want it a touch deeper. Your length and width seem perfect. I paddle with a 7.75" seat, and I like to feel I'm "in' the boat, and not on top of it. So, I'll want something >10" deep at the aft end of the cockpit. I also kind of like the depth to be the same at the aft and fore end of the cockpit.

Maybe a little more "deck" volume forward of the cockpit, in general, too.

No way of knowing how the heck I'll build the thing. I've done just about every approach: foam, wood strips, one-off, molds, paper mache, concrete, and a lot of "whatnot."

Roy

[mahyongg]

Hej y'all,

Cool build! Here's an idea though: next time you build over a positive plug, just use a solvent to get the plug out. Acetone works with a bunch of foams.. and leaves the epoxy unharmed. Try before, of course.. and catch the runoff, it'll be nasty large steaming pile of dog doo. You don't want that to stick up in the nose of the boat, to become a hard paste of gooey foam feces.



Cheers!

Jan

[Matt Fritz]

Jim,

Just to be accurate, I talked to a few of the others on the grand trip and best we could figure the level at lava is between 7000 and 13000 cfs.

Roy,

The cross sections you pulled from an earlier post are cross sections from my wind c2. I do plan to take lines from pépé at some point but just haven't yet. The wind line would be a good start for a wide c1. That is how I started.

I know what you mean about sitting in a boat and not on top. Just be careful adding volume to the stern. In my opinion, a slalom boat stern that you can easily dominate is great, but one with too much volume is a liability and is prone cause cstching edges and flipping.

Jan,

Thanks for the idea. That was plan A, but after testing gasoline, mineral spirits and acetone on foam stuffed in a soup can, I decided it was too risky. Even the acetone didn't really disolve the foam. It just turned it into a gooey mess that stuck to everything.

Matt

[Matt Fritz]

I am really liking paddling pépé both river running on the grand and in our gates here in Salida.

I am having a small outfitting problem. My foam back rest does not stay in place. It seems itnisntoo far from my back to the cockpit rim to use just foam. I tried a few ideas that didn't work before deciding on molding a carbon fiber backrest. It should be very similar to river elf hip blocks, but bigger and symmetric.

I carved a mold in two halves from mini cell, covered it in packing tape and then layed carbon fiber and epoxy into it.

After it cured, I pulled the two halves of the mold apart to release the part.

Even after trimming and sanding the finish is not very good, but it will be mostly covered in foam and Kevlar tape.

[Matt Fritz]

Here I am glassing the backrest into the boat. I think there might be a lot of pressure on it so I re-enforced both the top and bottom with two layers of Kevlar tape.

Next I glued on a block of foam and shaped it to fit my back.

After a few test paddles and adjusting the foam thickness I'm happy with it. It is comfy and really holds me in my kneecups tightly.

Matt

[Roy]

Matt,

If you do pull the lines, I look forward to seeing them. I am sure you're right...the perfect slalom stern is tough to get right the first time.

Roy

[Matt Fritz]

We have a lot of water in Salida now, so I've got a some experience in my new boat in the gates in bigger water.

I can't express how happy I am with it. I really have nothing that I want to change about the design.

A modern slalom boat design with a lot of stability is so much fun.

Below are a few videos from yesterday.

In the gates:

http://youtu.be/vE3HiQmj5NM
http://youtu.be/NoPHiDQrAkY


Surfing:

http://youtu.be/H_QVUjn0In4


Matt

[Matt Fritz]

And here are a couple of videos when things go a little wrong.

Sometimes it is a little hard getting off the wave at the corners.

http://youtu.be/RurlyFbicjs
http://youtu.be/e92tDpx8o2M