Boat Question

Traddad · Post by **Traddad** » Sat May 28, 2005 3:20 pm

I need some advice.
Back in the 80's and 90s I paddled kayaks in Colorado and AZ, moving from cigar boats into squirts prior to quitting. Near the end of my career I was exposed to C boating by an itinerant slalom racer and immediately loved the position and stroke power in the C1.
A recent raft trip has reawakened the paddling jones and, as I like learning new stuff, I am contemplating starting again, only this time in a C1. The advice I need is: What boat? I am wary of starting in a boat that I will quickly grow out of and would rather start with a boat that is a handful and grow into it. As an ex-squirter (albeit an intermediate) I like the commitment required and control afforded in edgy boats. Also, as I live in Phoenix (a whitewater free zone for 9 months out of 12), 75% of my boating will probably be on the eddy lines of the lower Salt with seasonal forays, as my job permits, into Colorado and to the Upper Salt. I also would like a boat with some speed. Boats that wallow and plow need not apply. I'm 6'5" and weigh 205.
Any suggestions?
I have a good deal of experience with repairing, building and cutting
down composite boats so kits, unfinished hulls and repair projects are
OK. I'm also a cheap SOB

chuck naill · Post by **chuck naill** » Mon May 30, 2005 12:30 am

Based on your weight and time commentment including your self discribed issue as a spender. I would get a used creek or river runner to convert. THis site represents a source for outfitting your boat using foam to build a seat, etc. Remember the longer the boat the faster it will be.

If you like the idea of glass, then check out Millbrook boats listed under manufacters on this site.

Regards,

CHuck Incognito

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Mon May 30, 2005 12:37 am

Given your previous experience I'd recommend finding either:
a) a used Viper or Acrobat (more expensive option)
b) find a used slalom boat from the '80's and cut it down (i.e. reduce volume). Extrabat, Stealth, Fanatic I or II and numerous other designs are all good candidates (already slightly edgy). This will yield a fast, edgy boat that you can have fun on eddy lines with....at your weight the chop shouldn't be that hard to do, and you may also consider enlarging the cockpit rim to fit a newer, larger skirt (easier entry and exit).

NZMatt · Post by **NZMatt** » Mon May 30, 2005 6:20 am

I agree with Adam if you're looking for a glass boat - the Acrobat and Viper would both be good boats. I wouldn't go with a creeker if you expect to spend most of your time on flatwater - they'd probably be better river boats, but you'd probably also get bored with them pretty quickly on flatwater. If you want something easier to come by, then I would go for an older style, long and slicey playboat - something like a Wavesport Foreplay (maybe a Score for your weight?) or an X. The Prijon Delirious also makes a good C1, but might be a bit small for you - I think they made a larger one for a couple of years though. The good thing with a plastic boat like that is that if you start to find it is no longer fun enough, you can always squash the boat and reduce the volume

Admittedly this is a lot of work and hard to do well, but it tends to increase the interest factor.

Cheers,

Matt

Traddad · Post by **Traddad** » Mon May 30, 2005 5:15 pm

Thanks guys,
I think the old slalom boat is the best Idea.....until I can sell enough plasma

There MAY be an old Cudamax kicking around Phoenix somewhere. It's the remnant of the slalom racer that passed through. He and his wife were great C2 mixed paddlers....when they weren't biting each other. The last time I saw it it was sitting in the garage of some prof at ASU. While the age might make it a little suspect, it might still be in good enough shape to cut down or perhaps pop a mold off of. I'll check in Flagstaff and Colorado, too.
I'm not a fan of flatwater but in the summer when the only flowing stuff for 500 miles is coming out of the bottom of a dam.....and even that's chock full of tubers...you paddle on what you've got. A fat creek boat is about as fun as a mountain bike with training wheels in that situation.

Cheers,
Sam

Cone Bone · Post by **Cone Bone** » Tue May 31, 2005 1:55 am

Hey Sam,

Fifteen years or so ago, I spent many a day canoeing on the Salt between Roosevelt and Apache Lakes. There was an easy put in at the dam that holds Apache (horse mesa dam?). Very nice desert flatwater. The river hadsome power even though it was slow. I bet the eddy lines would be a hoot in something you could submerge.

I have an old Fanatic that needs a good home. Let me know if you would be interested in having it shipped to Phx.

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Tue May 31, 2005 1:32 pm

As the male paddler of the referenced C-2M team (we were in Tempe, AZ from 1985-88), I can confirm that I gave George Wolf at ASU and his wife, Karol Oja, my old Ultramax (NOT a Cudamax) before my wife and I left Town. It was a Nittany Valley Boats layup by John Sweet that we had bought used from Jamie McEwan. It was in relatively good condition when we left AZ, but have no knowledge of its current state. I wouldn't let its age automatically discourage you. If it hasn't been beat up since on the Salt River and has been stored inside the garage, there is a good chance it's still in good shape. My 12-year old son is paddling my old Batmax, which is only about three years older than the Ultramax. The Ultra is a good river running C-1 (I ran the Gauley with it in 1985), but not as edgey as you might like for squirts (the Cuda was better for squirts and the later Bat series better still). One of Davey Hearn's later slalom designs (see info on race boats to the left) or the aforementioned Acrobat or Viper might be more desireable.

George should be listed in the faculty directory at ASU (under Chemistry if I recall correctly). If you contact him, please give him and Karol a big hello from Hanna and John on Long Island. (If you think that the Phoenix area is lacking in whitewater, you should try Long Island!!)

P.S. We never bit each other; just had loud discussions about who had screwed up in the last rapid!!

John

Traddad · Post by **Traddad** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:20 pm

Hola John and Hanna!
First off....sorry about the biting comment.....I should have said "spirited discussions"

.
You guys were fun to watch. I NEVER could discern how anyone could roll a C2....and thanks for letting me try the Ultramax. I'll call George and see if it still exists.

PS....You would NOT believe Tempe Beach Park.....You got out while the getting was good.

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:08 pm

No need to apologize as no offense was taken.

Our discussions were always rather spirited!!! Other C-2M teams we knew didn't argue on the river, but none of them lasted very long either. We always felt that we aired our disagreements immediately and thus resolved them (albeit somewhat vocally), while the other teams let it stew and simmer. At least we provided ample entertainment!!!

We stopped paddling not too long after we moved to Long Island. First a combination of busy work schedule and no whitewater nearby. Then the addition of what at one time was four children under four!!! The kids are older now and my eldest (the aforementioned 12-year old son) becoming interested in whitewater has given me a good excuse, .. er reason

to get back into both paddling and slalom. I just dug our C-2s out of moth balls this past weekend to paddle with my twin daughters (10) at a Class 1 slalom clinic. Got to have ample "reasons" to keep paddling you know!!

We enjoyed our stay in AZ, but lost track of most of the friends we paddled with. If you don't mind sharing your full name maybe it will trigger some recollections in our age-addled brains. Were you on the famed San Juan trip where we served the green spaghetti?

John

C-Forum

Boat Question

Boat Question

get a creeker or river runner design

Hmmm

Old Fanatic

C-1 for Phoenix Area

C-1 for Phoenix Area