Combat roll and saving face, so to speak

[ohioboater]

As I struggle in flatwater with getting my roll right, it seems like the OC roll leaves your face pretty exposed. Paddle shaft and hand are in front of it, yes, but you're still looking at the river bottom during the snap/recovery. I've taken some pretty stiff shots to the back/top of my helmet while tucked in a K1, and I doubt my hand/paddle shaft would have stayed in front of my face if I was in the midst of setting up for an OC roll in those cases. Am I missing something?

Those of you who regularly roll OCs in whitewater, if you flip in a drop with lots of shallow rocks, do you try for the roll or just swim?

My main goal with the roll is to be able to play more aggressively without having to worry about swimming every time I drop the wrong edge. But I know that once I have a roll, it'll be second nature to go for it if I screw up while running a drop...

[sbroam]

Back when I was exclusively open boating and flipped in shallow stuff, I usually tucked in pretty tight until things settled down. [In one boat, I could breath while tucked up, which could freak out the kayakers I was with - especially if I started talking to them...] If I wasn't moving that fast, I'd go ahead and try a roll - you don't have to tell anybody you braced off a rock. There were a couple of times on the Ocoee (Gonzo Shoals) where it was so shallow that a flip to my offside left me hung up and getting dragged along on the upstream side of the boat - in those cases, I did an "offside push off the bottom of the river hands roll".

I always felt pretty protected with a c-boater's low brace roll. I've got a pretty big nose and haven't broken it yet.

[ChrisKelly]

hurt about every part but my face.

I also tuck up into the boat and will sometimes hang out until I get to nice water for the roll. I am also happy to use the river bottom, rocks, kayakers, whatever to get up. I have never seen an open boater mess up his face. But then again, how cud we tell?


My last swim was a "drag along the bottom" deal. I was just so streched out and hung up there was no way to get my large steaming pile of dog doo all organized to roll.



Chris Kelly

[montana c-1]

Hey- I have been OC boating for a couple of years and certainly when I first started I would just swim if I didn't feel comfortable in the water, Now I try as many rolls as it takes.
A buddy of mine with his 30 plus years of OCing has tried 57 differnt ways to roll, with that being said .
I actually tuck up like a K1 roll and then quickly move to a high brace roll perp to the gunwhal of the boat , this will protect your face just lkike it does K1, I have hit my head on rocks more time than I would like to know but at least it wasn't a face or a shoulder. keep trying you will find your feng shui(sp?) of your roll, I find differnt boats easier and such to roll, I have a Nitro and couldn't get the hog to roll over for the longest time now no problem. I have been paddling a CUFLY a lot lately and that thing just pops right up no problem!!!!!!! I LOVE THAT BOAT
any way have fun in the pool or your local eddy
Sean

[christian]

when I roll either my c1 or oc1 when I come around the bottom from my setup I seem to be real close to the surface of the h2o and I try to get my head above the surface as quick as possible and in to my low brace that way if it is shallow you can kind of ride on you paddle until your able to finish the roll Ive had a few head shot's and shoulder hit's that didnt feel real good but I never really worry about setting up and rolling under the boat i feel pretty protected with my face looking at the boat that way you most likley will only get your back or back of helmet

[NZMatt]

A year ago I moved to Switzerland....in March I started paddling here and the rivers are steep and continous...and generally heinously shallow to boot. Hard on boats and bodies. So far I've done a lot of swimming. I have a pretty good OC1 roll if there's enough water, but I feel really exposed in these shallow creeks. If the water seems deep enough, I go for the roll, but if it's a continuous and rocky creek (e.g. barely enough water to get under the boat, water moving very fast and rocks so tightly spaced that avoiding them upright ain't easy, if possible), I'm about as likely to bail and get myself out of there. I say judge it on the conditions. I'm comfortable swimming nearly anything I paddle - doesn't mean I want to, but ya gotta be prepared to. Generally you're safer in a boat, but ...

In a C1 it's a totally different story - the roll is super fast and I feel very confident with it. I'm quite comfortable hanging out and snapping off a roll as soon as possible.

Oh, and if it worries you, get a face mask - I use one and most of the creekboaters (kayak albeit) here do too. Cheap insurance.

Now in big water - then you just keep trying until you come up....

NZMatt

[chuck naill]

The key are the hips. I agree that the faster the better in shallow water. I am glad you made the point about big water, it does present a problem.

Chuck

[MotorCityOC-1]

I've only ever had a back-deck roll in C-1 or OC-1. Guess I just couldn't get the hang of tucking forward. I suppose I'd rather smack the back of my helmeted head than my beautiful face- but I got's to tell ya, the back-deck roll is WAY faster than any other kind of roll you can think of. Seems like getting back upright fast HAS TO BE somewhat safer than hanging out under water in a shallow rock garden- tight tuck or no.

At the very beggining of my back-deck roll, my face is still above or near the surface or the water. For every other phase of my back-deck roll, the bicep or forearm of my onside (shaft hand) arm is covering my face pretty well. I really ought to get some elbow pads though, cuz I seem to hit my onside elbow quite a bit when I roll in shallow water, but I think I can get by without a facemask for now.

Feel free to dispute this if you ever meet up with me at a campground somewhere, trying to eat corn on the cob with no front teeth

[chuck naill]

If I understand your description correctly of a back deck roll, Kent Ford does one of these in his video, "C-1 Challange" from the late 80's. He does this to demonstrate keeping your hair dry when rolling.

If this is your technique, then I see you point. However, I do not have the flexibiltiy to pull it off as I tried this late winter in a pool.

Like I said before, it is the hips and additionally the momentum of going over that are going to get you up quickly. I had some scraps last Spring after going over in some shallow water that caused me to begin to wait and then roll. This started a chain reaction where I was then concentrating on getting my upper body into position, hanging out and then attempting to roll. I few weeks ago on the Ocoee I swam after not being able to roll and it really frustrated me. I got into some deep water pools and practiced. I noticed that instead of rolling in one motion, I was going over, rotating, then when everything was in place; I pushed down on the paddle. I then remembered the importance of the hips. This resulted in a very quick roll. I was playing in some shallow water last weekend and went over after catching an eddy to high. When an off side brace did not work, I went over and was up immediatily because all I thought about was the hips. I did not even remember what my upper body was doing.

THere will be times when going over in big water will present some issues that we just have to deal with like getting us completily out of position or something that knocks our paddles around, but I would say that it you concentrate on those hips more and less on your upper body you chances of having a reliable roll are going to be better.

Chuck/Knoxville

[billcanoes]

Until I get my head up and paddle close to the surface I use my shaft to protect my face- It has lots of gouges but my face doesnt- I have taken some beatings on the shallow stuff but I practive flipping in 8" of water often, so I'm used to hitting rocks twice- my arm and paddl have been extended with just the grip hanging on light in my hand only to be pulled back in for successful rolls- hopefully that wont happen much more-
If I can only learn to stay upright...
Bill