Little about myself, long time kayaker, instructor etc. BUT...never have paddled a single blade in my life except for some lake canoeing. Have been wanting to get into half a paddle boating for sometime, and the opportunity may have presented itself. The question is...would anyone recommend the Zoom as a first boat? I have heard it is twitchy, etc. Well, people said that about kayaks with flat bottoms and less volume a few years back as well.
Just wondering...thanks.
?Zoom as a first OC-1?
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opus&binkley
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Louie
If you learned in a Zoom you be one bad butt boater.
It would be like learnin to drive in a Mazzroit...Frarerr .....Lamburgen well one them Itialian car.
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opus&binkley
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Thanks...I was just wondering, because it seems that technology has changed quite a bit in the kayak arena of boating, yet in canoeing edgy and flat seem to be just coming into vogue.
Case in point, many years back, I was teaching a clinic (novice) and my co-instructor asked one of the guys who had just bought his own gear to use if he would be up to the task. "It is a pretty advanced boat for a new kayaker and I just want you to know that it might make it a little harder on a new boater."
The boat in question...Dagger RPM.
I realize that the strokes and balance points are different, but it also seems that one that has a familiarization with water features, knows down to instinct the leans necessary for eddies, peel outs and ferries and most importantly has swam everything between the nantahala falls and insignificant on the gauley already...might want to skip that first boat and move to something edgier straight off.
Or maybe not...
Case in point, many years back, I was teaching a clinic (novice) and my co-instructor asked one of the guys who had just bought his own gear to use if he would be up to the task. "It is a pretty advanced boat for a new kayaker and I just want you to know that it might make it a little harder on a new boater."
The boat in question...Dagger RPM.
I realize that the strokes and balance points are different, but it also seems that one that has a familiarization with water features, knows down to instinct the leans necessary for eddies, peel outs and ferries and most importantly has swam everything between the nantahala falls and insignificant on the gauley already...might want to skip that first boat and move to something edgier straight off.
Or maybe not...
I spent less than a year in a Rival and then went to a Phantom. It was scary at first, but now (year and a half later) I wouldn't switch back. There IS a steep learning curve. Lowering the seat as far as you can tolerate (mine is just under 7 inches) will help. (Butt closer to the water increases stability, but I think you loose some leverage - which you won't really miss with a high performance boat). Consider also, adding (perhaps temporary) an inch to the thwarts to give a bit more secondary stability. (I've shoved my rear thwart out an inch and pulled in my front by an inch - seems to make the boat faster (?) and more stabile). Give it a try.
Go for it
I paddle a prelude which I would guess is pretty similar to the Zoom in terms of stability (probably slightly less stable in fact), and it seems to me that kayakers have a lot less problems with this than open canoeists.
I have lent my boat to a kayaking friend who has only ever paddled big open touring canoes on flat water, and he looked completely at home on a grade 3/4 river. The below links are from his first day on white water in an OC.
http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=166
http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=142
I have lent my boat to a kayaking friend who has only ever paddled big open touring canoes on flat water, and he looked completely at home on a grade 3/4 river. The below links are from his first day on white water in an OC.
http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=166
http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=142
Last edited by bathtuboy on Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Louie
Louie here
I've had two and it was a hard learnin curve, but i wouldn't go back to any other Royalex boat I've had in the past. However thank God the Tuearue is out I got tired of havin to always paddle good.
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opus&binkley
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Re: Louie here
I was interested in the Taureau as well...and...have been in contact with the NOC and they say they have had some on order for a long time, and have yet to see one come their way?Louie wrote:I've had two and it was a hard learnin curve, but i wouldn't go back to any other Royalex boat I've had in the past. However thank God the Tuearue is out I got tired of havin to always paddle good.
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billcanoes
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where in NC are you
And how much do you weigh?
I think you might be fine in a zoom if you are lighter say 170- it is a big jump- but it sounds like you already know the water,
I'll have 2 Taureaus and 3 available Zephyrs in Dec- I'm in CHarlotte- Unfortunately, I wont have a demo Taureau, but one of the Zephyrs will be mine and you can try that- when it comes in-
Bill
I think you might be fine in a zoom if you are lighter say 170- it is a big jump- but it sounds like you already know the water,
I'll have 2 Taureaus and 3 available Zephyrs in Dec- I'm in CHarlotte- Unfortunately, I wont have a demo Taureau, but one of the Zephyrs will be mine and you can try that- when it comes in-
Bill
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MotorCityOC-1
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G#%&@mn, f$*^k/ng 1st day my @$$!!!
>>he looked completely at home on a grade 3/4 river. The below links are from his first day on white water in an OC.
>> http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=166
>> http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=142
Opus&Binkley,
THIS IS NOT NORMAL!!! This paddler is some sort of cyborg sent from the future to piss me off.
However, if you jump in a Zoom, and handle it as well as this cat, then you have your answer.
For mere mortals, something other than the twitchiest OC-1 available might be a better choice- unless you plan on spending a lot of time on class II/III.
Unless you plan on paddling a lot of shallow, rocky creeks- whatever Royalex boat you get should have a decent resale value at the end of it's first season. Seems to me that with Royalex, unless you really take it easy, the cost of paddling can be calculated on a per-season basis. Whether you paddle one boat until the hull is shot, or trade up every year, it's gunna cost $200-$350 a year- unless you are a good horse-trader- or very gentle.
IMHO- you should buy whatever you can get a good deal on that doesn't suck. Then you will have a much better idea what you'd like to be different about your 2nd OC-1.
>> http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=166
>> http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/canoe/pho ... age_id=142
Opus&Binkley,
THIS IS NOT NORMAL!!! This paddler is some sort of cyborg sent from the future to piss me off.
However, if you jump in a Zoom, and handle it as well as this cat, then you have your answer.
For mere mortals, something other than the twitchiest OC-1 available might be a better choice- unless you plan on spending a lot of time on class II/III.
Unless you plan on paddling a lot of shallow, rocky creeks- whatever Royalex boat you get should have a decent resale value at the end of it's first season. Seems to me that with Royalex, unless you really take it easy, the cost of paddling can be calculated on a per-season basis. Whether you paddle one boat until the hull is shot, or trade up every year, it's gunna cost $200-$350 a year- unless you are a good horse-trader- or very gentle.
IMHO- you should buy whatever you can get a good deal on that doesn't suck. Then you will have a much better idea what you'd like to be different about your 2nd OC-1.
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opus&binkley
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Ive seen Kayakers jump into open boats no prob. Just need to learn how to paddle. other than that edging and technique are the same. \\\\\-
billcanoes
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Zoom
Yes I do,
www.liquidmojo.biz its not a physical store but my boats,business and I are in Charlotte.
I've been trying not to talk about it much - not trying to be dishonest about owning a business, but I don't want people to see my name and think I only want to sell them something.
Anyway, I need to confirm my order with Esquif, as my rep told me Jan 06 looks like the availability date now, and I need to ensure nothing else has changed. The prices are on the site.
Theres a paddler Chip T. near Morganton who has a Zoom, maybe we can work out a demo-or you may know him. I know a few heavier paddlers have jumped into a Zoom no problem, but for the most part, Chip is the only person I know who felt the boat uneasy at first but worked on it till he was comfortable, I think 5 trips. My impression, from listening to owners, is that if they don't like it at first (I think Big Al liked it right away) and most don't become comfortable on higher class water if they didn't like it from the beginning.
Just so you know since you're new to the site I'm basically a class III paddler. I've owned a LOT of boats, I like to see what the different designs do, and I like feeling like I can hop into almost any boat and do OK.
Bill
billcanoes@yahoo.com
704-604-6687
www.liquidmojo.biz its not a physical store but my boats,business and I are in Charlotte.
I've been trying not to talk about it much - not trying to be dishonest about owning a business, but I don't want people to see my name and think I only want to sell them something.
Anyway, I need to confirm my order with Esquif, as my rep told me Jan 06 looks like the availability date now, and I need to ensure nothing else has changed. The prices are on the site.
Theres a paddler Chip T. near Morganton who has a Zoom, maybe we can work out a demo-or you may know him. I know a few heavier paddlers have jumped into a Zoom no problem, but for the most part, Chip is the only person I know who felt the boat uneasy at first but worked on it till he was comfortable, I think 5 trips. My impression, from listening to owners, is that if they don't like it at first (I think Big Al liked it right away) and most don't become comfortable on higher class water if they didn't like it from the beginning.
Just so you know since you're new to the site I'm basically a class III paddler. I've owned a LOT of boats, I like to see what the different designs do, and I like feeling like I can hop into almost any boat and do OK.
Bill
billcanoes@yahoo.com
704-604-6687