From a pool Roll to a combat Roll

[TommyC1]

Ha! I got all excited last weekend because my OC roll actualy worked when I needed it.
Which is to say that it often doesn't. Even this time I think it only worked because I was momentarily out of the current at the bottom of the drop that dumped me.
So I'm looking for tips on how to take my fairly reliable pool roll and turn it into a reliable combat roll.
One thing I know is that in the pool I often need to scul myself into position before I can roll up. I find that hard to do when I'm upside down in fast current not to mention banging over rocks and all that.
So what's the fastest, safest way to get my boat all the way over, paddle to the surface so that I can bring it up?

TIA
Tommy

[chuck naill]

Dear Tommy,

Try just focusing on your hips. Hitting rocks and swift water will focus you on your upper body. By focusing on your hip snap you will roll more quickly and with better success.

Try this at your next pool session and see if I am correct.

Regards,

Chuck

[Jim Michaud]

Chuck is absolutely correct. Concentrate on bringing your knees up to your head. By trying to bring your knees to your head it's impossible to raise your head which is a major factor in missing a roll.

Jim

[sbroam]

Roll a lot. I mean as often as you can - focus on doing it right and your "rolling muscles" will get stronger. In flat water you might be able to get by with an 80% roll but in current, rocks, etc, you might need a 90-100% roll. And then there are times when you need that 110% roll...

What do I mean by a % roll? For me, there are a lot of times where sloppy technique would still get me up in a pool or even on the river where conditions favored me, such as onside in a hole - that might be a <100% that still worked. Then there are those times when you need a roll with clean technique executed vigorously, patience, and that little bit extra - far more than you need in a pool but just what you need bouncing through a shallow rapid trying to roll upstream in a swamped open boat.

How do you practice for that? Work on making your roll fast - even to the point of overrolling - try executing 2,3,4 rolls in succession. Then practice in current - peal out, flip down stream; peal out, flip upstream. And even when you aren't flipping so much anymore, practice some or you will get rusty ( )...

[cheajack]

I first get into a set up making sure my paddle is out of the water, then it is all about my knees. I throw my offside knee away from me at the same time pulling my onside knee to my chest (don't quit this until you are upright. Just an instant before I throw my off side away from me, I "cock" it by drawing it quickly into my chest then immediately throw it away pulling on the onside knee. It makes for a fast dynamic roll. Bests, Jack

[billcanoes]

When I was learning to roll I practiced in every shallow water I could- The first time I hit a rock I swam- but when you get used to hitting rocks left and right they no longer become a distraction.

Bill

[Glenn]

My advice... Once on the river, take as many opportunities as you can get to roll in current and then roll some more! Try rolling in different currents – fast and flat, slow choppy, aerated, etc.... Continued practice in moving water is definitely a step towards a good combat roll.

Here are a couple of things that seemed to help me:

I used to get really disoriented when upside down, especially if flipping to my off side. I found that after lots and lots of attempts things finally seemed a little less confusing when upside down. I dare say that sometimes I feel almost comfortable tucked up against the air bag! If you spend enough time working on the roll, you’ll get used to the new surroundings and things should become easier to figure out.

Sometimes it’s very important to wait a moment to let your boat catch up to the speed of the current. I used to flip and immediate initiate my roll... I was struggling with it and the Great Gonzo mentioned that I should sometimes wait for the boat to catch up with the current. It sure helped... it also gives you a second to collect your thoughts and really focus on the role.

When it’s really important to nail the role.... Take a second to make sure you are set up right, focus on a quick snap and absolutely keep that head down.

Good Luck!

[Sir Adam]

A word of caution when practicing Bill's "rock and roll" manuevers...make sure someone else is with you, AND knows what you're trying to do. An avid kayaker (I know, I know) about 15 years ago now was teaching a class in the Pacific North-West and rolled over. The class waited...and waited....and waited. Apparently when he rolled over his helmet became lodged in some rocks. It is suspected he didn't know it, and tried to roll, tweaking his spine (hopefully rendering him unconcious). Many minutes later one of the class was very worried, and paddled over to his boat (this was all in flat water, mind you). Needless to say CPR didn't work....

*one note on this one-the fellow in question was a Geology Major at Colby College, where I went to school, and was a recent graduate...there's now a "field geologist" award that goes to a senior geology major displaying characteristics of leadership and an interest in field geology. The above tale has been passed down through the dept., so it can probably be taken with a grain of salt (e.g. was it his neck, or did he suffer other medical trauma when he rolled in flat water)....

[ChrisKelly]

Like Dumbo with his black feather. This ais all about our heads.

I agree with all the technical advice above and would esp second the stuff about keeping your head down. For me and for most people I've seen a raised head is the number one culprit.

As to the MoJo; the technique of a pool roll and a combat roll are the same. I just never miss a pool roll until I get tired. when I swim in the river it is always becaus I freaked. If I relax and say "I'm not coming out" I come up. The more gnarely the rapid the more important it is that we get up and the more likely it is that the river is screwing with us. (hole, rock ledge, shallow, eddy line etc.)

A good thing to do, both to get the boat in position and to get your head right is to curl up inside for a second. Get a breath, relax and proceed to roll as you would in the pool.

Get a MOJO and clip it to the bottom of your boat. When you are upside down, look at it, take a breath and do your thing. I myself have glassed a picture of Raquel Welch to the bottom of my boat. She helps me pay attention.
Chris Kelly

[TommyC1]

LOL Chris Kelly
I just got a flash of me flipping, tucking, seeing Raquel and not bothering to roll. " Hey babe, you come here often?"

Jeesh talk about distractions!

Thanks to all for the sugestions,
Tommy

[yarnellboat]

TommyT,

Sounds like I'm at about the same stage as you.

I think the biggest reason for me missing a roll on the river is 1) I haven't practiced enough in the pool and haven't developed the auto-pilot muscle-memory, so practice lots; and 2) that I'm anxious to roll up and start too early, especially getting my face out of water too early - take the extra second to relax, know that your set up, and recognize that your face needs to be in the river.

P.

[Nessmuk]

I must be a bit weird- I don't think of my knees at all when I roll (I don't even really know what they're doing).

I just visualize myself pushing down on the paddle with my head, by bending at the waist.