Mohawk canoes?

[markdc70]

I also think that the proper hull to try out this new material would be one aimed at the more aggressive/experienced paddler. These are the guys who've been waiting for a material like this. More than likely it was just a matter of timing. They felt that they needed a boat of this design in their line up and there was also this new material that needed a new mold to be tested out. Just my guess.

[chuck naill]

It would be interesting to know about the market for open boats. Something tells me that the whitewater market demand in lower than the recreational market. There is most likely more demand for a good entry level boat that can be used on calmier water. Although why use TwinTex there to begin with?

Chuck

[ChrisKelly]

I had the same question; why use it in a beginer boat?
Also, like many others I want to see how it holds up for a season. However, I am optimistic for these reasons: It appeared to be very tough. I saw guys hitting it with a hammer. It is light; lighter than Royalite. I think from looking at it that it is easier to mold into sharp lines than is Royalex/Royalite, hence boats with lines which will approach glass.
I am interested to see how Esquif will deal with the issue of attachment points esp for thigh straps. Glassing in tie down points will work for me and many people here but will that part of the market that does not have experience with glass accept it?

Given all that we know and don't know I still think that Twintex is a huge step foreward and may make Royalex yesterday's technology. If it works in the Zyphyr I bet it wil be available for many boats. Chris Kelly

[Tiggy]

If Bell started offering the Ocoee in Twintex, I'm pretty sure I'd get one. That would be hard to beat for an all-around open boat.

I'm surprised that Esquif's 1st? offering in Twintex is such a self-proclaimed begginer/intermediate boat. It seems to me that the biggest market for Twintex hulls would be more experienced, aggressive paddlers who wear out their Royalex hulls in a season or two.

Maybe harder chines are difficult to do in Twintex?

What were we talking about again?

-K

First, what is Twintex?
And did you know that the midships on the Bell Ocoee is 15 inches vs the ole Dagger 16 inches? Is this due to the roylex sheets?

[ChrisKelly]

it is fiberglass cloth with polypropelene embedded into the cloth. polypropelene is the material that most kayaks are made of. The result is a sheet of strong, stiff, light slippery material. Everyone who tested it at GAF seemed impressed.
I don't know how they combine the two but am reliably informed that it is some kind of Canadian magic. Chris Kelly

[markdc70]

Lots of technical jargon, but you'll get the idea.

[vann evans]

2 items-

First, Mohawk.

A good friend who was about to buy a Viper called Mohawk today and spoke with one of the owners. He said that indeed production had stopped, that there were no more Vipers, that Mohawk was entertaining and reviewing offers to purchase the company and also that he was fairly sure that whoever purchased the company would continue making Vipers in some form since it was their best selling whitewater boat.
That is all he would say. Period.

Second--twintex
right after GAF when the material was introduced, dixie boater posted a website address that linked to the twintex manufacturer. It was a great site with lots of good general and technical information. One should look at this site if interested.
Dixie boater did the research and here is that post

Quote:

dixie_boater
Pain Boater


Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 84
Location: Atlanta, GA USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject: Some info on Twin-Tex Reply with quote
I searched the internet and found this MSDS on Twin Tex. The sheet states more than just the safety precautions for handling Twin-Tex in a manufacturing environment. It is made at a plant in Wichita Falls, TX by a non-US based company. It contains E-glass and polypropelene. A chemical engineer with adhesives experience may be able to suggest what can bond attachments (anchors for straps, airbags, etc.) to the hull. Since it contains the same plastics that kayaks are made of it may be a challenge to find a good adhesive.


http://www.sgva.com/pdf/sgvx_msds_twintexglass.pdf

The Twin Tex website explains about the manufacturing process and marine applications:

http://www.twintex.com/fabrication_proc ... ocess.html

end quote

From what I read and hear, it appears that twintex truly is the new material to replace royalex--but I don't think it will replace glass for weight and performance.
Vann Evans

[Wendy]

I have paddled a canoe for 42 years. In my twenties I switched to kayaks just because of the boats were so heavy. Five years ago I switched back to OC1. I believe that having a beginner boat in a durable, light material opens the market to people in addition to adult males who are stronger- women, young adults, and even children may enter the market in larger numbers.

[chuck naill]

I am not disagreeing that having lighter boats invites more people to take advantage of canoeing, but the issue hear is durablity.

Kevlar and fiberglass boats are presently available. Any of the groups mentioned presently have products available that are light weight. The comment was why produce an entry level canoe out of a new performance material.

A reasonable analogy would be to make a entry level road bike out of carbon fiber because it might be easier for some people to carry. The advantages in carbon fiber is not that it make the bike easier to carry.

I am sure there are exceptions (and I like exceptions) but most female and younger people seem to be paddling plastic k1's. The people who paddle canoes on class 3-5 rivers seem to be male. This is just an observation. Having said this, I learned from one of the best open paddlers around named Juanita Quinn. She invented lots of the WW strokes we utilize today.

The reason for the material TwinTex is three fold I would think. The ability of a boat to be abraided my rocks, restore after being pinned, and being light weight and nimble. Dagger started producing thinner/lighter boats at the expense of durability.

I had not thought of it before, but the difficulty outfitting a TwinTex boat will be an issue regardless of how big and strong the owners may happen to be.

Chuck

[Wendy]

Chuck- New boaters don't need light weight glass. They would be in fear of tearing it up on thier first outting. yes, it is repairable. I would repair a boat, but most women wouldn't and kids shouldn't as they would not follow safety precautions. I grew up racing sailboats. My father built them from fiberglass- so I have some experience. I thank Jacque for the Zephyr and look forward to all future Twin Tex boats. I bought a Taureau- it would be nice in Twin Tex. It is great as is, but Alabama's Town Creek has an awful take-out.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone!

[SlovenOC'er]

The early buzz on the Zephyr was that it was a larger paddler's Zoom. Then Esquif announced that the Zephyr was detuned with softer chines to make it more "friendly". At that point, my enthusiasm for the boat waned. Other posts here have indicated a need for a higher performance canoe for the big folks. It says something that the Ocoee, a 12 year old design is still the boat of choice for a lot of these paddlers. The Zephyr is directed at a market that is already served by the Probes, Outrage XL, their own Nitro etc. etc. I'll admit that I don't know the molding limitations of Twintex. Or the amount of Zephyrs Esquif will sell going the direction they did. I will try one given the opportunity, but I suspect that my canoe search will continue. Enjoy your turkey tomorrow, this one has talked long enough.

Slov

[tonyattheriver]

I have a composite Viper and love it. Clipper Canoes in Abbottsford built it. I don't think the Viper is in their catalogue anymore, but they will still build you one if you ask nicely! Check it out!

Tony

[CanoeBoy]

Hey Guys,
First off I would like you all to know that in my humble opinion Esquif is fairly off the mark as marketing the Zephyr as an intermediate boat. It is not, it is a better Ocoee, for the intermediate to advanced paddler.
I have owned my Zephyr for about a month and have gotten in ten days, everything from steep Class IV creeks to the big flood water that we are experiencing in the NW. This boats rocks. It is fully capable of anything you would like to paddle.
It is much more dynamic than the Nitro and a little less edgy than the Zoom.
I would encourage you guys to paddle the Zephyr on something challenging and see for yourself that is no beginner boat. BTW Your welcome to paddle mine.
Nick