Why don't most of us race?

[Mike W.]

It was amazing at this year's Week of Rivers to have Wayne Dickert show up at the morning meeting & offer "any clinic(s) that anyone wants to do for free". He even suggested that w/ OC Slalom Nats coming, that we work gates. There were bunches of OC's there & two, yes, ONLY TWO of us took him up on the offer.

There are no slalom races within a 5 hour drive for me. Also nowhere to hang gates since water flows vary so much through the dam here: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nc/nwis/uv?dd ... o=02080500 I "trained" for slalom nats by catching every eddy & making every ferry that I could. I got whipped at nats, but I had a ball.

I've done 1 OC Slalom Nats, 1 Downriver Nats, 1 Aluminum Nats. I've also done a bunch of local flatwater & downriver races. Seems to me that the term "nationals" scares off a bunch of paddlers from all disciplines. Local events that are advertised through paddling club message boards & newsletters tend to have better turnouts.

I heard that OC nats was coming to NC & bought a boat (it's now for sale http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=5152 ). Folks questioned my boat choice, but I just wanted an OC so I could race. I signed up with no delusions of winning & fulfilled my expectations Now I'm going back to C-1's where I don't have to worry about finding a dry line.

The canoe racing community is fun to hang out with & there's no competition when they're off the water. Heck, even sitting in the eddy prior to runs everyone was real freindly.

Slalom is the hardest paddling I've tried. A one day 70 mile flatwater race or big water (lower Gauley) are both easier. I think (as Craig has already stated) the best paddlers have a slalom background. For most moves while running rivers you can be off by 1/2 of a boat width & be fine. Try that in slalom & it's a 10 second penalty

Yesterday we caught the spike & I was in a 7' C-1. Flow jumped from 2,500cfs to over 18,000cfs Attaining in that is a pretty good workout.

[Tiggy]

heres why...
Most races focus on kayaks while putting the open boats till last. So , You wait all day, pay money then you get your shot. The races I have attended have involved 6 open boats max. Animas river days then yampa river festival. large steaming pile of dog doo, on my first race they changed the rules after our runs!!! I would of won that one!!! lmao
So, I like the wilderness runs because thats really why I got into the "sport" and I'm sticking to it. Hang with your bros on a river

[Tiggy]

holy moly the server translated SH#$%t into large steaming piles of dog doo, lol. Have a good one yall!

[adamin]

That would be our handy-dandy language filter.

I realize that most of us talk like we type, and in a perfect world everyone would be fine with that. BUT, this not being a perfect world (I see no Sith nor Fatboy in my yard ), and this forum being read and enjoyed by folks of all tolerances and ages, we do ask that folks keep the personal attacks to a minimum (as in ZERO) and that everyone "watch their language". The language filter helps us moderators do that, in addition to allowing a little humor on (at least that I find amusing).

So far, we really haven't had a problem. I've had to approach perhaps half a dozen folks over the past few years, total, and each has been very understanding. So, if you're new to the forum, this is the way we choose to run things here. If you prefer personal attacks, less language restrictions, and a lot of off-topic posts, there are other sites for that

Thank you all for understanding.

Your (hopefully) benevolent admin,
Adam

with fine moderating help from PAC and SBroam

P.S. To get a little back on topic... I race when one is nearby (the Hudson Derby) but don't go out of my way to attend a race (though I've been meaning to for years). I think it comes down to what it is that excites you about paddling. For some (like Bob P.) it's the training, for others the challenge of the gates, for others it may be flopping around in a hole or surfing a wave, or, like me, just plain running down a river and enjoying the beautiful scenery (and the adreneline rush of trying not to get munched, topped off with a nice surf or two ). I've long noticed how separate the "Race" and "Rec" communities are, for the most part, and long wondered if it's possible to bring the two closer together (CBoats helps virtually, and Armada's help on the water (how many slalom boats were at the NB Armada this year??!), but in general the die-hard slalom and WW folks "train" while we "paddle". Different goals, different styles, both fun and very valid reasons to be on the water.

[Jon]

Last year I paddled a lot at the Gull in Minden and thought I was doing pretty good. Then they hung gates and it wasn't enough to hit the eddy, someone wanted me to hit it right HERE and then go through THERE! Wow. Not so easy.

There are only two OC slalom races in ON, but both are worth trying. One: to see how easy the really good paddlers make it look. Two: to see how much further I have to go in improving my technique and boat control.

The OC Slalom in Minden is always the first weekend in Sept after the long weekend. There are so many open boats showing up (over 100?) that practice is Friday afternoon after the gates are hung and Saturday morning, with racing Sat afternoon and Sunday.

If you have never been to the Gull, the water is clean (drinkable?), warm (top fed dams), camping is right beside the river (owned by White Water Ontario), and the Kawartha Dairy (mmmm Pralines & Cream) is 10 minutes away in Minden.

[KNeal]

The biggest reasons there are so few racers (whether it's slalom, downriver, creekin', etc.) are because, 1). so few persons organize events; 2). the events organized are usually pretty big to-do's; 3). and come across as intimidating to more "casual" boaters. Personally, I like 'um slalom races and whitewater downriver racers (as distinguished from 70 milers, eh Mike W. ?) and the one boatercross. But the slalom races I have attended were run by a racing club (BCE)--where big-time racers show up (which is really cool in its own right) or were labeled as a national's event--doesn't sound like low-key fun.

A huge improvement in race participation somes from local and regional clubs organizing race venues. New England groups do well with their series. Same for the Pennsylvania races (Penn Club?). Keelhaulers are noted for having several recreational "racer-head" types. It makes a big difference when more clubs start hosting low-key events and individuals step up and offer workout training opportunities (such as attainment workouts instead of just setting shuttle and paddling down the river).

I am eager to when I can get back to paddling and inviting others to join me for workouts. Just gotta wait until our 5 1/2 month old can fit a pfd and go in our open boat.

KNeal

[John Coraor]

Most races focus on kayaks while putting the open boats till last. So , You wait all day, pay money then you get your shot. The races I have attended have involved 6 open boats max. Animas river days then yampa river festival. large steaming pile of dog doo, on my first race they changed the rules after our runs!!! I would of won that one!!! lmao

Ouch!! I can understand your not finding slalom too welcoming after that experience! In the northeast, the slalom situation is a bit different. The New England Slalom Series (NESS) is organized by the Open Canoe Slalom Committee of the ACA Atlantic Division, so it is very OC friendly and generally has about as many OC entries as decked boats. Everyone is very supportive and friendly, with several REC classes and even an abbreviated "beginner" race course at those sites that can accomodate it. If water levels cooperate, there are 11 races spaced from March through October. Oh, and the rules don't change in midstream!

I can sympathize with those areas of the country where such opportunities are more limited. Although I attend NESS races, I live on Long Island where there ain't no whitewater. I have to drive a minimum of 2 hours to get to ANY whitewater, more often the drive is 3-5 hours.

John

[TomAnon]

Jon Coraor don't give us that "old fat guy stuff".....

I have watched you make your 1st C-1 run, sprint to the top of the course for a C-2 run with daughter#1, sprint to the top of the course carrying same C-2 to make a C-2 run with daughter#2, sprint back to the top of the course lugging said C-2 to make a run with son. Start all over again for second runs and then drive 5 hours home....... Now that is a love for the sport.

God Bless you....

BTW, I assume daughters are being encouraged to C-1W? New class and not a whole lot of women participants. A golden opportunity.

[the great gonzo]

I don't race much. So far I only entered the Gull River Slalom twice.
I might get a race boat and practice running gates if there was a course somewhere within 1 - 1.5 hours of Toronto (I still hope that the St. Catharines course happens at some point) to practice precision paddling and boat control.

Since there is no course anywhere near where I live, I practice my technical paddling skills on the Gull, which was originally built/modified as a slalom site, but there are no permanent gates there.

While I like watching the hot shots run the racecourse, I usually find that during the race weekends themselves the river is way too crowded to get pany good practice runs in and to learn much. There is usually way too much watching and waiting instead of paddling for my liking going on.
The same is, in my opinion, true for freestyle competitions as well.

The socializing at the race site is great, but most of my paddling friends are eiter kayakers or not into racing themselves.

I have therefore pretty much given up on racing, also since I am more interested in creeking and, since I got a squirt boat, to learn those techniques.

I will for instance skip this years Gull Race and go to the Hudson Armada (if it happens on September 9/10), or go to the Ottawa to work on squirting the Acrobat.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

[John Coraor]

Martin:

It's a shame that there are no permanent gates on the Gull River. My wife and I raced in C-2M at Minden in 1982 early in our racing career. We were slow and dirty, but felt proud to be the only C-2M that made all the gates. It's a great site for slalom - both racing and training! Maybe you could instigate getting some permanent gates installed?

Tom:

If you've seen me running back for C-2 runs with my kids, then you know how much I was puffing! I would love to see the girls in C-1W, but for now they need to build more confidence in WW, and kayak seems to be an easier boat to do that in. My oldest son took to C-1 immediately (we didn't have a kayak then, so he had no choice), but the girls are more timid and not as much natural athletes.

John

[NEOC Slalom Rules]

Excellent question to start a thread on Chris. I'm glad I got the opportunity to meet you at the NOC Nats. I race primarily for the pleasure of having a friend have to relinquish a warm PBR for me to enjoy on the occasions when something occurs to let me down the course faster than he. We obviously aren't big spenders. Friendly rivalvies, the socializing aspect of pre and apres race and the chance to get better or help someone else get better are all in the mix as well. I represent New England on the OCS committee and we have a strong group of dedicated racers and a great series for them to attend, of which no race is out of range for a weekend of commitment. That said we have a great core group of people knowledgeable in the running of slaloms, who take the extra day off from work and show up to help set up a course. Whitewater season in New England is often short but sweet and I like to get out and run all the local rivers I can when they are up. Many of our races are dam release or release assisted giving us water to paddle when we normally wouldn't have it. That said, with the releases often for the purpose of running the slalom, why do I do this as opposed to running the river. My answer is I often try to do both on the same weekend. Get in just enough practice to feel good and then get a river run in to work on other things. Its all about being well rounded to me. And a general love of just being on the water. When the whitewater is gone, we have a dedicated group who train flatwater together, having 5-7 mile races for some (workouts for others) every Tuesday night in the Champlain Valley region of VT. On any given night we might have a chance to paddle against former or current National Team members or Triple Crown Marathon paddlers. And we all watch and work on our technique. Attaining a level of great technique will carry you far even when you get old and fat. Getting the hours in on the water will help hold off the fatness factor for a bit. OK that's a stretch for me but I'm still better off for having paddled than not paddled. The friends I've made and paddle with don't just do slalom races. I paddle with folks who love marathon, downriver, canoe triathlons, Outrigger, and Dragon boat racing not to mention getting my Labrador and shotgun into a boat in the fall for a bit of waterfowl hunting. I'm blessed to be able to enjoy many varied forms of paddling where I live and I try my best to be a jack of all trades and Master of one (slalom racing against Roy Hunter for warm PBRs). Seriously, in whatever form of paddling enjoyment you persue, doing it with people who are expert at it is the best way to improve yourself and this will often put you in racing series.
And then you will move on to paddling with them for recreation as well. So little time- So many rivers.
Pat

[Jim]

Great thread.

My favorite paddling is OC recreational. I did that from 1988 – about 2001 and I avoided races because I hated being a spectator.

Now I am a race addict, even thought my favorite paddling is still recreational. The reasons:

1. Racing has made me a MUCH better paddler. Back in my float and brace days I was running good water (Upper Gauley & Yough, for example), so I thought I was pretty good. Once I started racing and I saw what the racers could do, and what I could not, and I was challenged. There are amazing boaters out there and seeing that “it can be done” has inspired me to try, and sometimes learn, how to do the things I see the great racers doing.

2. It has been a fantastic family activity. My family has gotten into racing, it is something I share with my sons, and they even ask to go to the races! That is pretty special- my 11 year old son is autistic and a few years ago I never thought I would get him onto any kind of river. Now he races with me and there is no better feeling. Part of his success is the racing community- when I am out on the course they all keep an eye on him. For a kid who has big troubles fitting in with everything else he does it is great for him to go to races and be “one of the guys.”

3. It helps me stay fit. I realized that one cold rainy day this spring. If I was just going out for a fun recreational paddle I would have turned around, but I went out and paddled so that I would be in better shape for the spring races. When you are 45 and have borderline high blood pressure the exercise is really important. “Training” is one way to make the exercise fun.

So I am a recreational paddler who loves the racing. After our first trip to OC nationals last year my family was really disappointed to miss them this year. However, my father was ill. The good news is that after 11 days in the hospital and a month in the nursing home he went home today- just in time for the fall race season.

I think most people do not race because:

1. It looks like too much spectator time / waiting.

2. It is intimidating.

3. It is really hard to get started. Dragging a recreational boat through a course and then back to the top to do it again is really tough. You have to be really stubborn to hang in there and get the hang of it.

Hope to see you all at a race soon.

[clt_capt]

I started racing because the things you could do in a race C-1 at the time were so cool - I'm talking about blasting, Pivot Turns (squirt moves) and the boats were light and fast.

[jscottl67]

I'm pretty new to whitewater in OC-1. I've paddled a tandem for several years on everything from dead flat water, to twisting and turning through the maze on the Haw in it. Though I paddled a friends OC-1 a few times before getting my own, and tried out a Cascade for a brief time, I'm on my first OC-1 and getting used to it and tweaking the outfitting a little more to fit me better.

My OC-1 is certainly capable of slalom...an Ocoee, pinched 2" and cut down 4" on the ends. According to the sticker, it was run in the 02 OC Nats. (I was told it was Craig's boat).

At this point, I'm not ready for slalom racing and sure I will never win at it anyway. I generally get to paddle once or twice a month, so my focus is on having fun when I paddle. I love to hit eddies fast, love to ferry in the boat, and trying to get a better handle on surfing, and getting much better at picking drier lines in such a wet boat.

But honestly, the only gates I've seen are on the Nanty, and that's about a 6 hour drive. I've been there several times this year, but haven't tried running any gates yet..just trying to squeeze as much time running it, hitting the play spots a little, and attempting to stay upright.

[John Coraor]

Jim:

Thanks for expressing so clearly the reasons that you got hooked on racing! I think that most of us can identify with your motivations.

The challenge of slalom, which results in improvement in your overall paddling skills, is one of the best reasons for recreational paddlers to give it a try. As Smerda noted, you can also improve your paddling skills by injecting that same kind of slalom challenge (involving both precise boat placement and diversity of conditions) into all your paddling. For most of us, slalom challenges us to do things with our boat that we wouldn't otherwise force ourselves to do; as a result we become better boaters.

I can also echo Jim's comment about the family friendly environment that slalom offers. When my oldest became interested in whitewater, the Penn Cup beginner slalom series was the environment that I chose to develop his basic skills. Practicing on Class I and flatwater slalom courses, where there were plenty of other boaters for safety and where he could run and re-run the same section in a short span of time to discover how best to use the water to get his boat to do precisely what he wanted, provided an ideal learning environment. Of course, both he and his younger sisters (who learned K-1 the same way) all graduated quickly to running Class I & II rivers, but slalom still provides an excellent, safe, supportive learning environment for developing their paddling skills.

Jim, glad to hear that your father is doing fine; we're looking forward to seeing you and Patrick at the fall races.

John