Rolling a Skeeter

[AJ]

First of all, I will admit that my combat roll sucks. With that said, I can roll my Ocoee and Outrage in the pool with no problems. My combat roll is always iffy at best, but I continue to practise it. Maybe someday it will come together?

Not having a semi relaible combat roll is a bummer. It holds me back from trying more challenging moves, rapids and surfs in fear of swimming. I have faired pretty well running class III to IV without a roll, but I tend to paddle more conservative, if there are swimming consequences down river. When I swim, it is usually not the big rapid, but a smaller rapid or stupid thing that trips me up.

So yesterday I went to a pool session to practise rolling my Skeeter for the first time in a pool. It was a disaster, I could not even roll the boat in a pool. It seems like the bulkhead outfitting does not hold me down in the boat in comparison to my Ocoee with thigh straps that ride up higher and tighter on my thighs.

So I am not sure how to change the outfitting to help with this problem without causing entrampment issues? Should I consider ripping out the bulk head and saddle for thigh straps? Can I even get thigh strap anchors/adhesive to hold on a plastic boat?

I appreciate any suggestions or thoughts on what to do.

[billcanoes]

Well, I know this is frowned upon by many- but I'm considerring putting a lapbelt in my oc1. Martin has a good tips for making them with VW seatbelt clips- I have some northwater belts in a few boats now which I trim up so only 1" comes through- but I have heard of them twisting locking you in the boat- I guess my take is on creekers I don't use them- I figure thigh straps hold you in for a good 5-6 rolls but if you're playing its nice to have the extra security to your boat.

[Martyn]

Hi,

Lap belts are a good idea, but there is a bit of a fear factor. Can you carve more out of the bulkhead so you can get your legs more into it and use the foot pegs to really wedge yourself in place? Re-doing the bulkhead so your knees are further apart in the boat could help, as might lowering the saddle.

Martyn

[creek1r]

I started rolling a Mohawk Edge, then went to Mohawk Viper 12,, to Outrage (double straps) which rolled easier than Viper 12, then to Skeeter (bulkhead). Skeeter rolled much easier than Outrage and as easy as any of my C-1s,, had no problems with being loose. In fact I copied the bulkhead idea into my Delerious C-1 and works fine. I do build up seat back to 7" with sticky neoprene skin.

[Nessmuk]

If you want thigh straps, it's not hard to install them in a plastic boat- I've done it in my Quake.

On each side, I threaded a D-ring through a short piece of webbing, then attached the webbing to the hull with two bolts. I used bolts with wide, flat, rounded heads, and with a good sized washer on the outside of the hull. The heads on the bolts have never gotten hung up on anything.

I use a Mowhawk thigh strap, so i didn't have to worry about securing straps to the bottom of the boat.

I also installed a long saddle, secured by the front and rear thwarts. The longer saddle also helps to displace water compared to the stock pedestal (which I sold to Billcanoes-hi Bill!).

This system has worked well for me- no problem rolling- and is holding up fine after 2 years.

[yarnellboat]

Before you consider a whole new set up, I'd fiddle a bit with what you got, using the ideas mentioned - carving at the bulkhead, wider knees, lower saddle, higher back, stickier back, foot pegs, whatever tinkering might work for you and your boat.

I don't know the Sheeter, but when I went from my Outrage to my Score, I couldn't roll the C-1, which everyone told me would be easier. Sometimes you just need to get used the new boat and maybe tweak a little something and your timing or positioning.

PY.

[keez]

Got some outfitting advise from Paul Mason on the Ottawa this summer. He told me to try shaving the foam on both the sidewall and the deck until my knees were only +/- 1/2" away from the hull (lower and wider). This also related into lowering the saddle.
End result was an immediate 75% improvement in control and ability to roll my Spanish Fly.
Work on proper technique as well, and not just the outfitting.
Geoff

[Atucky]

My combat roll is about 95% now in my cascade. I tried my friends skeeter in a surf spot on the ocoee over the summer. I immediately fliped, and rolled no problem. So I came to the conclusion that it's easy to roll.

I agree, tweak what you have first. I personally dig the bulkhead for a couple reasons. It's very easy to get in and out of, I've also found it to be much warmer on those cold days. You can view it as a sort of insullation. Try to get your knees as far foward and out to the sides as possible. Make sure you're in tight. You may have to carve out, or even glue some foam in certain spots. Also, make sure your saddle is not too high.

Good luck

AdamT

[Craig Smerda]

Skeeter rolls fine... tweak the outfitting so you are secure in it upside down with your feet locked in the pegs... no need to wear a lap belt unless you are not using footpegs... somewhere on this website there are outfitting "tips"....

[ChrisKelly]

I used to have a Skeeter.
I have a solid roll.

1. Usually rolling problems are technique related rather than outfitting related. I agree that good solid outfitting with your knees locked to the bottom of the boat and you seat low is a help but none of that will overcome lifting one's head. 90% of the time when I miss a roll and in 90% of the rolls I see missed, the boater lifts his head.


2. The Skeeter is harder to roll than, say my Rival or Spark or an Outrage. It has harder chines. I think that the Skeeter is a complete waste of time if you don't have a solid roll. It is designed to play and when we play we flip. Other than for play it is a catbox.

3. As to lapbelts, I think they are fine if and only if the boater has a BOMBPROOF roll. To use a belt with a sometimes roll is a recipe for disaster.

4. There is no substitute for tons of practice. Both your body and mind must know that when you flip you are coming up. Lots of times I just focus one one part of the roll. I'll do a dozen and just think about my head. Or a dozen and just concentrate on my thigh coming up. Or moving back into the boat. Another thing to look at is where you are putting the paddle. Sometimes I have the grip right at my bellybutton and sometims it is as high as the middle of my chest. The point is to isolate this stuff and work on it. Are you sweeping the paddle foreward over the bow or pulling it straight in as you come up? Both work. It is just helpful to try all this stuff so you roll no matter what.

Of course, sometimes I miss. I swam twice this year; once in Jared's Knee and once in the Numbers (This was a stupid fluke and is God's fault.). But I believe I am always coming up.

Chris Kelly

[kanur]

AJ, I had a fairly solid roll in my Ocoee so when I bought a Skeeter I expected it to roll even easier. Boy was I wrong, but it wasn't the boat it was me. After some practice I did find it easy to roll. When I went from the Skeeter to a Prelude it was the same thing all over again. It doesn't seem like it should be that way but I always have a learning curve with a new boat.
I love the bulkhead outfitting and agree with the other replys about getting your knees to the outside of the boat, it is a narrow boat. Take your time and cut away or add foam to get a good fit and with footpegs you will be locked in.

[bdollar]

I think that it has to be the outfitting, are your falling out ? are your legs too close together ? are you being held so tight that you can't rotate ? Tweet it and it should work.

BD

[AJ]

Thanks for all of the input and ideas. Yes, I am working on my technique with some friends and doing setups to strengthen my abs. When trying to roll, I did focus on keeping my head down as I know that can be a problem for me.

I also know that I need to be more flexible in my torso. I find the boat wants to turtle or force me to be upside down versus coming around more on the side. So basically, when I come around to set up, I have a hard time getting the boat over and my paddle up to the surface. Then, when I start the roll it feels like my paddle is just below the surface and getting to deep versus at the top of the water, I am extended to far from the boat, and I can't get a hip snap/rolling the boat motion going.

I think me knees are wide enough as they go all the way to the chine/side of the boat, it feels good in that regard. My saddle height is probably not the ideal height. On the road right now so I can't measure, but I am guessing 8 to 8 1/2" or so. I have old teleski knees, but maybe, I should shave it down more to get a lower center of gravity? I also think I could build up the bulk head further up my thighs, but it would make getting in the boat a little more difficult. However, I tend to come out easily now, when I want or need to. I do not think I can take the chance of a lapbelt considering entrampment and my rolling track record.

So I am going back to the drawing board and will tweak and practise.