Opinion on pumps....

[cbcboat]

AMEN!

[msims]

Keez is a man's man, don't you dare diss his pump!

HAHA this cracks me up. arent we already elitist enough by havin' a single blade?

[philcanoe]

. . . When I see a wave or hole I will paddle in knowing that my chances of swimming are good, but who cares. If I manage to roll then I don't have to go to shore and dump. My pump drains my boat and in I go again. . .

and

The Dry line is boring. It is fun to hit the hole, punch the wave, getsideways in a surf, push down on the bow to fill it just for fun. The sneak or the crease, Bah, give me the meat. It is fun to take water on, bailing or dumping suks. Take on the water, pump it out,. . .

that's just what I'm saying...you guy's have come to believe it takes a pump to paddle anything of consequence, sounds like you'd be afraid to jump into of anything of real consequence without one - it's become a crutch

.. really hate to put it this way...but I've paddle into bigger without a pump, than either of you've seen... and as a result of doing it enough, don't need no pump to do it now... it's not ego, or saying i'm saying all that (or not); the only ego here is of pump users - it's the act of doing it, that makes you better... and if you never learn to paddle dry, you're likely to never be able to ...

Mother's don't let your children grow up to be...

[Dave C]

The pump's kinda like my Whitesell. A security blanket.

God, I feel guilty.

But, I figure if you're over 60 and still trying to get down creeks, you're entitled to anything that get's you by.

[c1swim]

I was all for self-bailing rafts, but it seems a bit sacrilegious. It takes the "primitive" right out of "craft".
However, they work wonderfully and must have a place in the grand scheme of things.

Phil's worked up, but I tend to agree. Airbags and foam for me.
I love my wood paddle, too.
Maybe after 60, but for now; no pump. I've got C1s if I have to run dry.

[jscottl67]

sounds like you'd be afraid to jump into of anything of real consequence without one - it's become a crutch

What do you mean by real consequence? Obviously you have years of experience and an opportunity to run big water. Do I need to run something where I put myself in grave danger if I make a mistake to be a worthy paddler?

[sbroam]

I guess I never got that concerned about how *other* people paddle *their* canoes. If I ever get a pump (I mean an electric one, my manual bilge pump is doing nicely when I'm in a mid-river micro-eddy and need to lose some water), I don't see that it will change how I *paddle*, it's going to change how I *bail* - I'm still going to look for the dry line but when I miss it, it will be easier to get dry. If I'm playing, I'll spend more time in the hole and less on the rock.

I think I am done with this thread.

[bald1]

Phil,

I don't actually have any idea who you are, so I didn't realize how much of a stud you are. But you cleared that up by telling me what I have and haven't paddled, despite the fact you don't know me either. Anyway no offense taken, cause I do suck in my open boat.

Maybe one day I will excell to the level of excellence that is exhibited on this board. At 31 years old Ive got a few paddling years left, assuming it ever rains again.

It is not a crutch, as I have said, my pump does not actually help me run any lines. It is simply more convenient.

Really when you think about it, do my skills improve more quickly by my paddling to shore and dumping or spending twice the time in a hole? Last I checked we could all dump our boat from day one.

[squeakyknee]

You're all a bunch of C-fags anyhow so what does it matter?

[John Coraor]

... was assuming, that the discussion was about OC1 play-boating/freestyle and running whitewater in an OC1. Somebody even suggested it be legal for racing the Green-Narrows Race... oh-my-God

I understood the context and appreciate your point that doing without a pump offers another level of challenge that open boaters should consider stepping up to. I agree. Pushing boundaries, when done responsibly and safely, is the best way to learn and develop as a paddler. My point was simply that whether a paddler feels ready or even wishes to push that particular boundary, like all such decisions, is a very personal choice.

I think it's fine for you to call attention to the possibility of choosing this particular challenge. Nothing like a little challenge among fellow c-boaters. However, like when a paddling buddy is wrestling with whether to run a particularly hairy rapid at the outer limits of their ability, the challenge is there and the paddler should be encouraged to take it if others perceive that he/she is ready for it, but ultimately if the paddler decides to pass, that's a personal decision that we should all respect and not chastise. Choosing to forego a pump does present a challenge that we can all respect; however, a paddler not making this choice shouldn't result in anyone questioning his/her "manliness" or their credentials as an open-boater. IMO that's like calling a paddler a wimp because they're having a bad day and decide to walk a rapid they're not comfortable running.

My concern wasn't with the message as much as the tone that has crept into this thread - one of hurt defensiveness on the part of pump users and macho aggressiveness on the part of the anti-pump advocates. Can't we all just acknowledge that running OC-1 in WW is more challenging without a pump and that, like any paddling choices, it's one that a paddler should consider as a means of pushing their personal boundaries, but ultimately it's a choice that may not be right for all paddlers for diverse, but very good reasons.

[eddyhops]

[Dave C]

Where can I get one of those for my Whitesell?

[msims]

BUTTER!!!!




...parkay..(TM)*






*Butter/parkay arguement copyright mshelton or squeakyknee, i cant remember who

[mshelton]

I'm ok with the size of my wenkie, so I'm all for the bilge pump.





Thanks for the props MSims, it was one of my responses to another pointless argument

[Wendy]

As a weanie woman- I love dry lines, but I really love the meat of the line, so - the pump is great when I am full up after having some fun in wetlines/big water sitting in an eddy and flipping a switch. As expensive as boats are and as often as I change boats I like to leave the upper side of the boat near the gunnels not as scratched up from turning it to empty. No, I am not strong enough to lift a full boat of water, so I have to tip it on rocks, sand, etc. My K1 folks do appreciate not having to wait on me so much.