oc1 air bags and pumps

[Grillmastertoo]

Good morning--
Im curious how everyone travels with their boats...with the air bags inflated or deflated or even in teh boat at all and why?
If deflated, what type of pump do you have to easily inflate at the put in and get onto the river...Ive seen a few on NRS site, they seem to be for rafts..
thanks
Allen in Alabama

[Gail R]

there are a number of universal air matrice pumps on the market that you can plug into your cigarette lighter...we have a yellow one from Colman, will have to check the serial number for you:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanC ... ryID=10060

Anyone that sells car camping gear will probably have a version. Walmart?

about the bags; our formula has been..... short shuttles...leave them in and completely inflated; long trips take them out

Our canoe club assets guys over the years of looking at the issue have determined that the biggest detriment to bags is partial inflation in the cage during transport.

Watched the wind action once out the window of a Beaver on a tandem bag that was almost full.....not comparing apples and apples but the mechanism of damage is a fraction of that action.

[beereddy]

"long trips take them out"

What for?

[Eric Nyre]

I transport without the bags, unless it's a really short jump.

To answer beereddys question as to why.

Two things.

1) Bags expand, either from temperature changes or altitude changes (a 5,000' change in altitude isn't uncommon out here). When bags expand they either blow seams or deform the boat (seen both).

2) If the bags flop around, you'll be buying or patching the bags in the not too distant future.

When I left my bags in the boat, I replaced them every season (and patched frequently). When I take the bags out, I get several years of use without any patches.

[yarnellboat]

I leave my bags in, and so does everyone I paddle with.

I've had pretty good luck with not having to do much patching and getting several, sometimes many, years out of bags.

You just have make sure they're inflated enough not to flap all over, but deflated enough so the don't expand and do bad things. You do have to watch the pressure with heat and altitude - an inflated bag pulled a d-ring and cracked my hull!

PY.

[philcanoe]

for me it depends on the trip (length) and boat -AND- of course all bags are not created equal

in a Fly removing air bags is a real (R-E-A-L) chore, and they travel really well in, mine are the same original bags... seven years and never patched...difficult removal is probably the same for most full-saddled-n-bulkheaded boats (?just?guessing?)... personally wouldn't even consider such for a (Alabama2) West Virginia trip

and as Eric stated watch out for elevation - thats' been done before, but that's not a worry here on the east coast... ditto on keeping them full not partial... and no cigarette ash thumping out the window, if so bye-bye-bags.. and if you're a butt thumper, it'll simply be poetic justice

you'll want a HVLP pump, not one of those for car tires...and one that deflates as well as inflates... seen some that are rechargeable, and their owners swore by them

around here you would also really be limiting your choice of paddling partners - people really do hate to wait around on that goober who takes his bags in and out every trip... my crew (i don't boat with many canoers) would not wait around on you, and have even said such (every time)... so I'd be early to the put in, and quick on their removal... remember everyone's now ADD or ADHD and the fad around here is multiple runs and/or laps

of course that was in the good old days- with what some of these bags cost, I'm thinking a full on car-bag for the whole boat

[Grillmastertoo]

Hey Phil--Great points to take to heart...do you of any brand names of the pumps you are talking about and where one might find it?
Thanks

[philcanoe]

will PM you a email address of someone who has one, and will advance notifiy them

[SlovenOC'er]

I've used a bellows type footpump the past few years. A lot of rafters take them on extended trips for emergencys and topping off the tubes. Pretty sure NRS, Cascade Outfitters etc have em.
They are reasonably fast, have a adapter ring for different sized valves. Don't have that obnoxiously loud high pitched whining noise that electric pumps make (similar to paddlers reaching the takeout and finding no cold beer waiting for them). Like others, I leave the bags in or out depending on length of drive, speed, altitude, etc.

Slov

[yarnellboat]

The pump I use plugs in to the car's lighter. It cost about $10. Works fine. I thinks it's a Coleman or some such brand, you can probably get them any camping or department store. The fancier rechargable ones cost more like $40.

Same for the folks I paddle with - there would be limited patience for everyone putting their bags at put-in.

PY.

[sbroam]

I've definitely seen wear and tear from leaving them in for extended period - you can see where the bags beat on the lacing and sometimes when sitting in the sun the bags have expanded to uncomfortable pressures... But toting a wet set of air bags is a pain and inserting/removing is tedious and time consuming. Two things I do :

1. deflate the bags and stuff them in the ends up under the deck plates - this is using the set up where the grommet at the end is tied to a fastex buckle that is on a webbing strap that helps retain the bag. The bags don't go anywhere, don't get beat up near as bad in the wind and you can have them deploy them quickly.

2. plastic bag protector - there should be some pictures here : http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam/CanoeOutfitting I made the two halves from a sheet of coraplast and have them in and out in a minute or so. I deflate the bags a little so a temp change won't pop them and only have to top them off. Of course, it's a custom fit for that boat. $10 and I don't worry about the bags anymore. plus, we've debated about whether there is any aerodynamic benefit...

I tend to keep bags forever and they are looking just fine years later...

Those cheap mattress inflaters work great, sure they whine, but it's over in a minute or two. I even wired a cigarette lighter outlet in the bed of the truck to work with that.

[beereddy]

I have NRS "3D air bags", they are very elastic ( instead of , for example, Piranha Preludes air bags) so no problem with over pressure.
I like Mad river Outrage deck cover, and
I remove Zephyr air bags strings and made deck covers ( from thick armed PVC banner material taken from advertising company)

[oc1paddlr]

one more thing that can damage airbags is/are screw or bolts protruding through the gunnels, esp. at the thwarts. my bell ocoee had some sticking down about 3/8" on the small thwarts at each end of the boat. changed them from 1-1/2 to 1-1/4. filed off some burrs on others. also, the nylon voyageur bags have stayed in my 1st ocoee over 6 years, no problem, and i paddle it bout every w/e. (if you see a guy pulled over letting air out or blowing air in his airbags, that's me)

[kanur]

Bags in, Fully inflated

Since I usually travel with Mrs Kanur (who paddles a pod) I leave the bags in and put my boat on its side against the stackers and then put her pod in front of my boat. This does a pretty good job of protecting the bags but is hard the finish of the thwarts.

Not many open boaters in Missouri so I paddle with a lot of pods and like Phil stated they don't want to wait around to rig a boat.
Funny thing though, when you come to a tree all the way across a creek or some other thing that everyone has to portage I am always the one waiting on them.

[Bill M]

I try to keep them tight which means You may see me beside the road adjusting as well. I also check the bottom of the thwarts/gunnells for screw ends. I wrap them with duct tape.
Bill