What boat should I buy for this trip?

[Oci-One Kanubi]

From Georgetown, Washington DC, January 1 2010:
~200 miles up the Potomac to Bloomington, MD
~12 miles up the Savage River and Savage reservoir
~12 miles over the Eastern Divide to the South Fork of the Casselman
~50 miles down the Casselman to Confluence, PA
~75 miles down the Youghiogheny to McKeesport, PA
~20 miles down the Monongahela to Pittsburgh
~1,000 miles down the Ohio to Cairo, Illinois
~150 miles up the Mississippi to St. Louis.
~1,500 miles up the Missouri to Three Forks, MT
~100 miles up the Madison to MT-87 below Quake Lake
~15 miles over the Continental Divide to Henry's Lake
~100 miles down the Henry's Fork to Rexburg, ID
~500 miles down the Snake to Lewiston, ID
~500 miles down the Columbia to Portland, OR
All within one calendar year, I hope

Technical Class III on the Lower Yough.
Big-water Class III in H ell's Canyon.
Entirely too many towns in Idaho named [something] Falls!
Lots of navigation dams that will probably refuse to lock a canoe through, so lotsa portages.
Lotsa lake paddling across the impoundments on the Ohio R. and Missouri R.
Lotsa upstream paddling against mild current.
Possibly impossible to paddle up the Mississippi
I can attain Bear Trap Canyon ('cept for Kitchen Sink rapid) but I dunno about the rest of the Madison
Mandatory water-fall portages on the Henry's Fork and the Snake, and I don't wanna run the Class V stretch of Henry's Fork.

I would carry portage wheels and a folding bicycle, since portages might total several hundred miles. The boat would be outfitted for lining, have a nylon splash deck, and unused volume would be packed with inflatable floatation.

I'm leaning toward the longest narrow kevlar tripping canoe I can find. I'd portage Class IV and up, I can run Class II in a flat-bottomed cruiser, and I guess I can swallow my pride and portage/sneak the Class III rapids in the Lower Yough and hades's Canyon.

I'd like to advice on both specific makes and models, and more general opinions on boat styles and characteristics, like materials, or whether to convert a tandem tripper vs. using a solo tripper, etc.

[cbcboat]

sounds like a pretty intense trip. I would consider a smaller tandem simply for gear space. Consider spending the $ and looking into kevlar or Balckgold from Bell. Only problem with tandem tripping boats is they definetely don't paddle well solo, especially in wind, which you are 99% likely to encounter especially on the Missouri, oh and the prevailing winds on the Missouri are usually down stream (that reclusive downstream wind we all hope for). For solos you sould look at the Wenonah Rendezvous, great for rivers, or the Encounter, more of a lake tripper but holds a ton of gear, both available in Kev., both would keep good freeboard when loaded, or maybe even the Prism, kindof right beetween those 2. The Pocket Canyon from Esquif set up solo, a little heavier though, only in Royalex. side note, have you considered using a motor for any of this trip? The Prospector may also be a good option, I think about every canoe company makes one or something similar, they should also be offered in Kevlar. I'm sure some tohers will weigh in, but heres some stuff to chew on.
Good Luck
B

[cheajack]

Leave the bike @ home and get a Hahn C-1

[Sir Adam]

In a perfect world you'd use multiple boats. But I suppose that isn't quite the point.

My first thoughts are in two different directions, and it really comes down to your time frame, and what you are comfortable in (as well as what support you potentially have - in other words, how much weight will you be traveling with).

1) Hahn C1 or similar. Stable, comfortable, fine in white water, OK in flatwater. Have PS Composites build you a new one and include a hatch or two in the decks (or not), depending on gear. No worries about keeping things dry (always covered). Strap your bike wheels to the deck if need be.

2) Wenonah Rendevous, Prism, Advantage, or Hornbeck 16' ultralight canoe. More challenging in whitewater, but much, much, much faster in the flat water. More cargo space as well.

One things I WILL give you a strong recommendation on - if you are planning on camping out, purchase a Hennessy Hammock. VERY comfortable and durable...and VERY light. Why I hear some folks have hiked the entire AT camping in one (Kenneth). You do need trees though (or use your paddles for the "ground tent" setup version).

[craig]

Kaz may have a lightweight tandem cruiser that may handle well enough solo. Souhegan or AC/DC, I'm not sure of the names. Some people use them for poling too. Good Luck, sounds like an epic trip.

[s2welee]

That is a nuts itinerary I wish I had that kind of time. You might want to look at a Nova Craft SuperNova solo. They can carry a ton of weight and do well enough in water up to III (I have had mine in IV). They make a Kevlar version that cuts weight. I trip in mine as much as possible. Just my .02, there are probably reasons why it is a bad choice

[jottsee]

That is alot of upstream paddling. Will you be considering what many solo trippers have done and use a double bladed paddle for windy days and high current flows.

I am from south dakota originally and there are quite a few big lakes along the missouri. The water is also flow controled from Sioux city to the junction with the mississippi - meaning it is difficult to use the slack water to make progress up stream. I think it would be very difficult to paddle solo up the missouri is a solo canoe.

There are a lot of areas along the lakes in SD that have few trees, but you can probably find a place along the shore to hang a hennessy if you so choose. The nice thing about the lakes in SD and ND is that the shoreline is public land (as are all of the islands and sandbars in the missouri) and you can camp anywhere.

I have a supernova and love that boat for down stream tripping, but I would seriously think of a flatwater boat for this kind of trip - or I would rig a WW/downriver tripping boat with a retractable rudder. Even better would be if you could canoe sail.

The Missouri is the only part of your trip I know about. But I love the idea.

If you do it I can find you a warm bed and a good meal in a few places in SD.

jc

[sbroam]

Birch bark!!

[Tiggy]

13 foot Boston Whaler with a 40 HP

[ohioboater]

At least on the Mississippi, the lock operators are just fine with locking through a canoe. They treat you just like any other vessel.

[cadster]

Several years ago, I did a trip thru Hells Canyon and there was an attempt being made by the authorities to recover a solo canoeist's body.

From what I remember the guy had planned on canoeing the length of the Snake and Columbia. He was in a tandem canoe and carrying a bicycle.

[Eric Nyre]

For a canoe, I'd use a Sawyer Loon in expedition Kevlar, replacing the stock seat with a sliding We-no-nah pedestal.

A Kruger SeaWind would work better on the flats but you might have to line some of the class III. The Loon should be able to handle it with modifications and would be easier on the upstream (Loon is also a Kruger design, SeaWind is larger update).

When Verlin Kruger decided to paddle UP the Grand Canyon, he used a Loon.

Although Kruger has passed away, his latest canoes are still being built. http://www.krugercanoes.com

For a kayak I'd use a Seda Glider, comfortable in big class III, not too bad in technical if you backpaddle and use the rudder to kick the stern. http://www.sedakayak.com/sea_kayaks/glider/glider.html

Research Verlin Kruger, back in the day he did several cross country upstream/ downstream paddles.

[rogue]

For the trip you have described, you need a boat that will do a number of things very well. First and foremost, you need a C-1 that is FAST and tracks very well. At the same time, you need a hull that is extremely good at upstream attainment. Also something that will handle moderate whitewater. Also a boat that will present a low profile to the wind and hold its course very well in wind-driven waves. The boat also needs to be very stable and seaworthy. And something that will carry a lot of gear, and is also easy to portage. I agree with Eric Nyre, there is really only one choice - A Sawyer Loon, Mad River Monarch, or Kruger Sea Wind. The Loon was the original design, made by Sawyer Canoes. A later design, the Monarch, was made by Mad River Canoes. The most recent design is the Sea Wind. Design-wise, all three are basically the same boat, but with some minor differences.

The Loon was Verlen Kruger's original design for his 27,000 mile trip around North America. The hull is basically a scaled-down 3X27 marathon racing hull, which is why it is so fast. Not fast in terms of absolute top end speed, but fast in terms of easy speed. The Monarch is essentially the same boat, but is slightly higher volume due to the hull being about an inch deeper and slightly wider in the ends. The Sea Wind is slightly higher volume than the Monarch, and has had its entry lines softened for better handling in ocean swells and waves.

Neither the Loon or the Monarch are in production as both Sawyer and Mad River are out of business. The Sea Winds are still being built. The workmanship and quality of construction of the Monarch was better than the Sawyer-built Loons. The construction quality of the Sea Wind is superb. But it will also set you back about $4500 to buy one, as well as having to wait six months or a year to get one. I have seen used Sea Winds on paddling.net for as low as $3500. They hold their value. Scott Smith of Superior Canoes has his own version of the Sea Wind that is even deeper and higher volume than the Sea Wind. Also, Scott now has all of the old Sawyer Canoe Company molds, and he could probably make you a Loon.

My choice would be the Loon. Of all the versions of Kruger's original design I like it the best. Used ones are hard to come by. I looked for a year before I found mine. If you can afford it, I would get Scott to make you one in Kevlar. Otherwise, start looking now for a used Loon or Monarch. They are rare, but they're out there.

[jim gross]

Mr Richardo

How are you doing buddy? I see you are still planning your X-country trip. Most adventurous. I hope you will be able to find a few internet cafe's along your journey and post.

As far as a boat I would bet you can find sponsorship easy with a manufacturer. I would bet you could find sponsorship with many outdoor manufacturers for equipment.

From what every one said it sounds like the Loon is the boat. Are you going to write about this after with a book or a journal? I do hope so. If you need help storing a vehile here in the area while you are on your trip let me know. I will love to see you off as well.

Talk soon Buddy

JIM

[Marc Evans]

Oci-One Kanubi,

I can't comment on what boat to use, but thought I'd confirm that cbcboat is right about the Missouri. Did one-hundred downstream miles on the wild and scenic section in Montana and the winds were down stream the entire time. A friend with a GPS unit came up with a consistent 5 mph on the water without a stroke taken. That aside, the trip sounds like a great idea.

Have you ever read River Horse by William Least Heat Moon? Very similar to your trip route, though Moon was no canoeist, and used what craft were available (including cars). It is my understanding that the lock operators on the lower Snake river do not allow canoes through the locks. So, I suspect that you will have to portage. I'm 30 miles from Lewiston and would be happy to keep you company for a day or so if I'm not stuck in class.

Also, during the summer irrigation season the central Snake river is nearly complete drained for those famous Idaho potatoes. Keep that in mind in terms of timing your passage through southern Idaho.

Keep us posted as the start date nears.

Marc