Outrage X vs Prodigy X ---newbie needs a used boat, Help
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Mr.DeadLegs
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Old Town H2Pro?
I see H2Pros around for ~ 200 bucks a lot. I find them at least as good as a Caption for solo use and I am quite sure they could handle 300 pounds. I think one would be a great first-boat-under-16' for extra large paddlers. While they are all old, they seem to be very tough.
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marclamenace
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The ME is a great boat but the gunnels are very low in the middle section, so the water gets in pretty easily. The weight in the boat the worst it gets but on class I to II it's still good for a big guy. Class III-IV is another story. Still a great boat I love.
The probe 14 would probably be the closest hull design, with higher gunnels. The caption is different and probably better design; gunnels even higher and drier boat middle section is larger also so carves more.
The pocket canyon and the XL 14 looks a lot similer in design to me. Nobody mentionned yet about the xl 14 I beleive would be a great solo tripping boat for a big guy?
The probe 14 would probably be the closest hull design, with higher gunnels. The caption is different and probably better design; gunnels even higher and drier boat middle section is larger also so carves more.
The pocket canyon and the XL 14 looks a lot similer in design to me. Nobody mentionned yet about the xl 14 I beleive would be a great solo tripping boat for a big guy?
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McNugget0909
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Of the boats discussed, I've only paddled the Outrage X, and that was just briefly over an easy slalom course. I found it an easy boat to get used to, and at 6' 5" and 225#, I think the Outrage X will be about as dry as most boats in its weight class.
For about 10 years, I've been using our Mad River Synergy as a solo cruiser. It is fairly similar to the ME, but more recently molded, so if you see one on the market, take a look. Though long (15'), narrow (28") and fairly "tubular," it does technical moves surprisingly well. Not the dryest boat, but good for a heavy guy even with a coupla nights of camping gear.
For about 10 years, I've been using our Mad River Synergy as a solo cruiser. It is fairly similar to the ME, but more recently molded, so if you see one on the market, take a look. Though long (15'), narrow (28") and fairly "tubular," it does technical moves surprisingly well. Not the dryest boat, but good for a heavy guy even with a coupla nights of camping gear.
Big Guy
I am 6' and approaching 300#. I started in a Nitro which I could paddle well after a year or so. After I tried a freinds Genesis I realized I needed a bigger boat if I wanted to take my paddling to the next level. But I feel like starting out in the small boat made me a much better paddler. I have tried the Outrage X one trip on the Nantahala and I thought that at my weight it was a little low in the water. It was wet (compared to the Nitro which is very dry) and not very playful (the nitro will practically find waves to surf on it's own). It liked to side surf but not front or back surf. It carved well and caught eddies well. I could ferry it easily (I could never hold a ferry line very well in the Nitro in swift water). If you are just going to run rivers with minimal playing you will probably like it.
I wanted to try a Prodigy X but never found one. Then I got a great deal on a probe 14 so I grabbed it. Mainly because I was without a boat and wanted to go paddling. But I wish I had held out for a while to find a Caption or maybe an Encore. I have never paddled either but both look like they have slightly harder chines than the probe; which gives you better overall performance. My next boat will probably be one of those two. There is the Bell Nexus too but it is pricy and rare. I have only seen one used around here in my 4 year paddling career and it was still expensive and new it was out of the question for me because of the price.
The Esquif Blast might be another boat to look at. I never paddled one but it is 1.5 ft longer than the Nitro and has the same hull characteristics which would be a good thing for playing and paddling. I experienced wear issues with my Nitro on our low water SE runs so I didn't really consider the Blast when looking for a bigger boat and I haven't noticed very many on the rivers. I will probably try one of these before I buy another boat too. There is a lot that I miss about the Nitro.
I think the only problem with a big boat like this is getting it to the water and back. I am currently looking into a "cart" to haul my barge back and forth from the Chattooga. Once you are on the water it doesn't feel that big. All of those boats have plenty of rocker and at your size you should be strong enough to muscle them for any desperation moves. I also fid that I have to paddle to stay in some eddies with the bigger boat. I used to roll my Nitro easily and I can roll the probe 14 just as easily if not more easily but it doesn't really matter in the probe because you can't do much with 50+ gallons of water in your boat. Thankfully I don't "need" to roll as much in the bigger boat.
Hope this helps.
Andy
PS - If you are ever coming near Dahlonega feel free to PM me if you want to test paddle the Probe.
I wanted to try a Prodigy X but never found one. Then I got a great deal on a probe 14 so I grabbed it. Mainly because I was without a boat and wanted to go paddling. But I wish I had held out for a while to find a Caption or maybe an Encore. I have never paddled either but both look like they have slightly harder chines than the probe; which gives you better overall performance. My next boat will probably be one of those two. There is the Bell Nexus too but it is pricy and rare. I have only seen one used around here in my 4 year paddling career and it was still expensive and new it was out of the question for me because of the price.
The Esquif Blast might be another boat to look at. I never paddled one but it is 1.5 ft longer than the Nitro and has the same hull characteristics which would be a good thing for playing and paddling. I experienced wear issues with my Nitro on our low water SE runs so I didn't really consider the Blast when looking for a bigger boat and I haven't noticed very many on the rivers. I will probably try one of these before I buy another boat too. There is a lot that I miss about the Nitro.
I think the only problem with a big boat like this is getting it to the water and back. I am currently looking into a "cart" to haul my barge back and forth from the Chattooga. Once you are on the water it doesn't feel that big. All of those boats have plenty of rocker and at your size you should be strong enough to muscle them for any desperation moves. I also fid that I have to paddle to stay in some eddies with the bigger boat. I used to roll my Nitro easily and I can roll the probe 14 just as easily if not more easily but it doesn't really matter in the probe because you can't do much with 50+ gallons of water in your boat. Thankfully I don't "need" to roll as much in the bigger boat.
Hope this helps.
Andy
PS - If you are ever coming near Dahlonega feel free to PM me if you want to test paddle the Probe.
[img]http://www.canoecolorado.com/eric/Blast.jpg[/img]
Photos of my Esquif Blast in Salmon Falls on the Main Salmon.
The big guy problem I have with is is the narrow knee area, the Prodigy X is much wider and allows a more comfortable stance. Put a 9.5" saddle in mine for all day comfort and so I could get my knees slightly out of the chines, but the COG is on the high end that way. Weightwise it would work since I need at least 40 lbs in the boat with me to sit it down properly. Even with raft support I found myself carrying a fair share of gear.
Like the Nitro it might be a bit more responsive than a beginner would enjoy. 300 lbs however is no problem.
Photos of my Esquif Blast in Salmon Falls on the Main Salmon.
The big guy problem I have with is is the narrow knee area, the Prodigy X is much wider and allows a more comfortable stance. Put a 9.5" saddle in mine for all day comfort and so I could get my knees slightly out of the chines, but the COG is on the high end that way. Weightwise it would work since I need at least 40 lbs in the boat with me to sit it down properly. Even with raft support I found myself carrying a fair share of gear.
Like the Nitro it might be a bit more responsive than a beginner would enjoy. 300 lbs however is no problem.
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dixie_boater
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Good boat cart for bigger canoes
Hey Andy,
Paddleboy makes a very good cart for large canoes. Check out the Nemo Model. I have an older version of the Nemo model and have found it very useful at Thrifts Ferry and Woodall Shoals. This cart does not have a solid axle so it provides good ground clearance over rocks, roots, etc. on the Chattooga access trails. The unit collapses easily without tools and weighs eight lbs. You can disassemble the cart, put it into a web bag and lash it into your boat. I have used this cart at the LRC Chairlift put-in which is much steeper and longer than the Chattoga trails. I bought mine at Go With the Flow in Roswell GA, but The Outside World may carry them too. This cart received a favorable review in the ACA magazine a few years ago.
http://www.paddleboy.com/paddleboy/
After rolling you can quickly get a lot of the water out by splashing it out with your paddle. This tried and true method has been in use since the mid-80's when rolling a 14' Whitesell or Blue Hole Sunburst. Don't use a metal tipped paddle to do this because it can gouge the inside of the hull. Or you can add dual electric bilge pumps and just throw the switch
Paddleboy makes a very good cart for large canoes. Check out the Nemo Model. I have an older version of the Nemo model and have found it very useful at Thrifts Ferry and Woodall Shoals. This cart does not have a solid axle so it provides good ground clearance over rocks, roots, etc. on the Chattooga access trails. The unit collapses easily without tools and weighs eight lbs. You can disassemble the cart, put it into a web bag and lash it into your boat. I have used this cart at the LRC Chairlift put-in which is much steeper and longer than the Chattoga trails. I bought mine at Go With the Flow in Roswell GA, but The Outside World may carry them too. This cart received a favorable review in the ACA magazine a few years ago.
http://www.paddleboy.com/paddleboy/
After rolling you can quickly get a lot of the water out by splashing it out with your paddle. This tried and true method has been in use since the mid-80's when rolling a 14' Whitesell or Blue Hole Sunburst. Don't use a metal tipped paddle to do this because it can gouge the inside of the hull. Or you can add dual electric bilge pumps and just throw the switch
Michael McCurdy
I'm planning on selling my Rival, Team edge outfitting.
I am 6.0 ft and like 200 lbs, never had a problem. I even did a 4 day self support trip in it and she ran fine. Self support trip was on the Salt river. Went deep in Black Rock lol.
(I need money and room to get my raft going)
I am 6.0 ft and like 200 lbs, never had a problem. I even did a 4 day self support trip in it and she ran fine. Self support trip was on the Salt river. Went deep in Black Rock lol.
(I need money and room to get my raft going)
"Don't Panic"
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Blast and Cart
Sorry to hijack your post a little nug.
Eric,
How does the Blast handle compared to the Nitro? I really miss the playability of the Nitro. The bigger boat gives me alot more stability in Class IV. I don't know if you have been down the chattooga but I borrowed a Genesis from a freind and ran the section known as 3.5. I had done it several times in the Nitro but always carried around Bull Sluice because of a lack of confidence in my ability to stay upright in the entrance rapids. My buddy had a Perception saddle wedged in the Genesis without any glue or screws and I still had enough confidence to clean Bull Sluice on my first trip in it. After that I knew I needed to upsize. The Probe I got lacks a lot of the playfulness and performance of Nitro. I miss my esquif factory bilge pump too. I don't miss the esquif outfitting though. I like the mohawk system much better as far as comfort goes, although the esquif system probably held me in a little better. I was kind of pissed about the chine wear on the Nitro but I do miss it for Continuous class II playing. Is the blast's hull speed any better than the nitro's?
Dixie,
As I said above I sorely miss my bilge pump. I probably need to bag my probe out a little better; I only have 60" bags in it. There is quite a bit of space for water to collect. I have recently rigged a double bailer with two bleach bottles taped together. I will have to practice rolling up and splashing some water out to see if that helps me any. We ran Section IV to Camp Creek a couple of weeks ago and that was my favorite run to date. Camp Creek is a bitch of a carry though. I dragged most of it. That is when I decided on the cart. Not very "heroic" but if it saves me dragging the bottom off of my boat I am all for it. I would build a bilge for my probe but I don't think I will have it for very long. I already have an itch to get another boat. That is not going to make the wife happy though so I am waiting to do something right before I bring that up
.
I am really anxious to hear how you think the blast compares to the Nitro Eric. I would love a more stable, faster, Nitro. Although I think the shallow arch hull wears much better on our rivers. I am a little more patient with the water levels as I get more mature in my paddling. Do you have Esquif reviews on your site yet?
Andy
Eric,
How does the Blast handle compared to the Nitro? I really miss the playability of the Nitro. The bigger boat gives me alot more stability in Class IV. I don't know if you have been down the chattooga but I borrowed a Genesis from a freind and ran the section known as 3.5. I had done it several times in the Nitro but always carried around Bull Sluice because of a lack of confidence in my ability to stay upright in the entrance rapids. My buddy had a Perception saddle wedged in the Genesis without any glue or screws and I still had enough confidence to clean Bull Sluice on my first trip in it. After that I knew I needed to upsize. The Probe I got lacks a lot of the playfulness and performance of Nitro. I miss my esquif factory bilge pump too. I don't miss the esquif outfitting though. I like the mohawk system much better as far as comfort goes, although the esquif system probably held me in a little better. I was kind of pissed about the chine wear on the Nitro but I do miss it for Continuous class II playing. Is the blast's hull speed any better than the nitro's?
Dixie,
As I said above I sorely miss my bilge pump. I probably need to bag my probe out a little better; I only have 60" bags in it. There is quite a bit of space for water to collect. I have recently rigged a double bailer with two bleach bottles taped together. I will have to practice rolling up and splashing some water out to see if that helps me any. We ran Section IV to Camp Creek a couple of weeks ago and that was my favorite run to date. Camp Creek is a bitch of a carry though. I dragged most of it. That is when I decided on the cart. Not very "heroic" but if it saves me dragging the bottom off of my boat I am all for it. I would build a bilge for my probe but I don't think I will have it for very long. I already have an itch to get another boat. That is not going to make the wife happy though so I am waiting to do something right before I bring that up
.I am really anxious to hear how you think the blast compares to the Nitro Eric. I would love a more stable, faster, Nitro. Although I think the shallow arch hull wears much better on our rivers. I am a little more patient with the water levels as I get more mature in my paddling. Do you have Esquif reviews on your site yet?
Andy
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McNugget0909
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no not at all, I am learning so much. I am new to the forum too, I have been responding to people in PM's, I guess I should do it here. But seriously, I appreciate all the feedback. In fact I sent you a PM Andy but I am not sure if my PM's are going through.
McMillan
McMillan
"Buy the ticket, take the ride" -HST
Vertige X is good for big boaters
Not all large boaters are men
I had a Vertige X triple set up. It makes a very stable, fun boat. There are used ones floating around. I sold mine to some instructors.
BTW Andy- I have a RIver RUnners lead battery system I will sell. It can be moved easily from boat to boat. PM me if interested. I got the lithium version.
I had a Vertige X triple set up. It makes a very stable, fun boat. There are used ones floating around. I sold mine to some instructors.
BTW Andy- I have a RIver RUnners lead battery system I will sell. It can be moved easily from boat to boat. PM me if interested. I got the lithium version.
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McNugget0909
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