Finally on the prowl for a good starter/upgrade WW OC-1

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:50 am

I think I'm starting to hit a wall with my wide, stable ol' Mohawk Challenger. I can get it into and out of eddys on our class II local river just fine, surf, ferry, block and avoid the strainers, sunken engine blocks 'n rebar, etc., but I've come to the realization that my braces are weak. This is really limiting how aggressive I am...I still haven't fallen out of the d@mned thing! I'm thinking learning to roll will dramatically help this, but as much as I love it, the Challenger ain't the boat to learn that in. It's a fun boat, but maneuvering it is kind of like driving a Ford LTD Brougham in deep winter slush.

I've been in my boat, a Bell Yellowstone, a Dagger Rival and an Ovation. The Yellowstone was more limber and faster than my Challenger, but that's about it...it's an easy river/lake boat. The Ovation felt like a plastic wash-tub, but I really took to the Rival (part of a OC-1 river class I took a while back). It felt loose for the first 10 minutes or so, but for the remainder of the class, felt limber, responsive and had good speed/glide. I had a real blast in it.

I weigh 160 lbs and most of my height is in my legs, not torso. Given my budget is small and used Rivals don't come up very often, what other (used) designs out there share similar attributes? What should I keep my eyes open for? Where do Probes and Outrages fit in the spectrum with the Rival?

Thanks,

Phreon

kaz · Post by **kaz** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:20 am

I believe there are a couple used Rivals for sale on this website.
JK

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:19 pm

One suggestion: try as many as you can!

Many suggestions:
prodigy
viper
rodeo
spark
prelude

Kaz is right, finding a used rival shoudn't be too hard if you look on this forum and other places... An old encore or skeeter would be though.

Have fun on the water!

Dooleyoc-1 · Post by **Dooleyoc-1** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:43 pm

I'd try a slightly hotter design since you're looking for more. Go for a Viper 11, Ocoee or Spark.

You will have a learning curve of about a month if you go every weekend. After that you will never look back. You can do a lot more and enjoy lots of small river features in these boats. It will be fun.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:48 pm

i agree with dooley, I started in a challenger moved quickly to an ME, thought about a rival, bought a Nitro and just picked up a beaten Viper to train on the local runs.

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:57 pm

Because of your size/weight, you have a lot of choices in canoes. The thing to ask yourself is whether you're looking for a river runner, like a Rival, or a boat that offers more interesting play opportunities. The Prodigy for instance is going to be a lot like the Rival. It's going to have good acceleration and glide. A boat like an Ocoee gives up some speed, but gives you more edge and control. A smaller boat like an Prelude adds more nimbleness and responsiveness, but also requires more precision and balance from you. So decide what style of paddling you want to do primarily and then try boats that fit that style.

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:18 pm

Speed/glide is a high priority. Most of my paddling will be on rivers within day trip diststance and most of them have sections of slow, tedious water.

"Soft" primary stability has never bugged me in kayaks or canoes, but I do value firm secondary. If I went for anything with an edge, I think I'd still want to stay on the mild side. I have to be pragmatic about this; I'll probably never have enough time as I'd like on the water to get really good, so I need that elusive boat that is somewhat forgiving of stupid mistakes but has room to grow. If I can progress into a solid Class III+ paddler, anything beyond that will be sweet, sweet gravy (it's a bad analogy, I know. Work with me). I like the idea of a playful boat that can make the most of the small features on our "squirrelly water" local rivers (from all the engine blocks, tractor parts and I-beams dumped in 'em deflecting current in strange ways*), but more so, I don't want a slug.

The Rival seemed fun, but I really haven't had a chance to try many other boats to really know. It doesn't seem like there are many OC-1 boaters in the Cincy area and the paddle shops around here all cater to kayakers.

Thanks,

Phreon

*Google "Fernald Uranium Plant" and you'll know the exact section of the Great Miami we run; you can't find a section of the river closer to that environmental catastrophe.

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:34 pm

Definitely check out the Prodigy then.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:00 pm

Have a look at the Outrage. Great boat, stable, fast, turns well, accelerates well and has lot's of room to grow.

TGG!

craig · Post by **craig** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:28 pm

A Spark is nimble and has some speed and glide.

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:12 am

Hmm... I'm going to take pickings from used boat fleets, with the economy being what it is and all. I really need to try various boats to figure out how aggressive of a hull I really want.

Phreon

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:41 am

its a shame theres not a forum to meet people who paddle these diffrent craft, and events where these people come togeather and form an armada of diffrent boats that people could swap and demo to their hearts content.

"sigh"

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:24 pm

Sounds like some kind of hint. Where could I find a web-site like that?

In reading, I've found that many people draw similarities between the Rival and the old Probe 12II (now just the Probe 12). Is this a reasonable assessment?

Phreon

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:58 pm

Yes, big picture, personal preferences aside, I'd put the Outrage, Rival and Probe 12 generally in the same category. Prodigy & Nitro could suit similar paddlers too.

As mentioned, you have lots of options at your weight, and it may be worth trying a Spark to get a livelier version of the qualities you like in an Rival/Outrage.

PY.

dan. · Post by **dan.** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:22 pm

you could buy my zephyr.....