Solo WW canoe reviews?

COcanoe · Post by **COcanoe** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:44 pm

Did a search for reviews here and on Google but not finding much. Getting bored with rafting and starting to think about a canoe for western rivers like Yampa, Ladore, Main Salmon, etc. The shops in Colorado only seem to know kayaks, for which I have zero interest. Are there any online reviews or buyer's guides of solo canoes suitable for these rivers? Any magazines that actual review WW canoes? Not even sure what the options are these days.

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:05 pm

http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7961107

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:21 pm

demo demo demo... http://www.canoecolorado.com/

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:53 pm

I've used a 15' MR Synergy on the San Juan and on the Slickrock section of the Dolores. I think you do need some length to allow some cruising speed on the flats. But you also need rocker for the rapids. The MR version of the Caption would be good. Also look at the Esquif series if you have a dealer near you.

COcanoe · Post by **COcanoe** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:16 pm

marclamenace wrote:http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7961107

Newfangled terminology. It's a canoe daggumit not a frickin OhCee.

Thanks but no actual comparison sites anywhere with stats and photos? That thread isn't much help. I'll try to demo once I've narrowed down the list. You can tell a lot about a boat without ever getting in it if you have decent photos and measurements. But even the companies that make them fail there.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:24 pm

http://www.cboats.net/c_db/list.php?type=3

images,stats,basic info, and even a review for some boats.

Eric Nyre · Post by **Eric Nyre** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:32 pm

Craig Smerda wrote:demo demo demo... http://www.canoecolorado.com/

Thanks Craig.

COcanoe, where ya at? Looking at a boat in person is a heck of a lot better than trying to get info from glossy photos. I've got just shy of 30 solo whitewater canoes (not everything is on the site), odds are one will work for you.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:02 pm

I've done some of those runs, what's your question COcanoe....

You raft supported... solo... carrying some... a play boater... what time of year (levels)... all of that will really matter. It's not like there's one magic boat that'll be just right. What are you comfortable in now?

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:07 am

There are some reviews by paddlers on www.paddling.net

The site does a great job of organizing user reviews by manufacturer and canoe.

COcanoe · Post by **COcanoe** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:11 am

Sir Adam wrote:http://www.cboats.net/c_db/list.php?type=3

images,stats,basic info, and even a review for some boats.

Thanks, the stats are a help. Would be nice to able to filter out older boats. Alas the photos don't show the important stuff like end view of the bottom and side profiles (but neither do company web sites). Don't get down to Denver much so want to do my research ahead of time.

I'll be raft supported--love the creature comforts just not so much the rowing, yawn--on trips May-Sept. Need space for a waterproof camera box and day gear but that's about it. Unlikely to do any rivers on the Front Range, maybe a day trip on the Ark, but mostly multi-day trips with some class III-IV and enough flatwater and headwind to be a consideration. Would necessarily give up some play for a bit of tracking but looking for a happy mix.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:14 am

Given that a lot of "older" designs are still made, and considered quite good, the filtering works by type (click on "Rec" if you're not racing or looking for a longer OC1, then what your main use is, etc...).

Images are just what folks have submitted, or we've managed to take. Definitely not perfect, but then it's all volunteer:)

COcanoe · Post by **COcanoe** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:42 am

Sir Adam wrote:Given that a lot of "older" designs are still made, and considered quite good, the filtering works by type (click on "Rec" if you're not racing or looking for a longer OC1, then what your main use is, etc...).

Tried that, still left me with 60+ boats and I know there aren't that many relevant. I realize it's volunteer so just constructive criticism.

As for "older," I can give you a discourse on Grumman's versus Smoker's versus ABS in the early days of WW canoeing (fiberglass wasn't even in the running and Uniroyal came in much later). But somehow I doubt anyone who calls a canoe an "OC2" cares even knows what the hades I'm talkin' 'bout.

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:04 am

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7960874

I think a few might know what a canoe is, even if we say C1, C2, OC1, OC2 to classify them a little bit.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:43 am

I think you'll find quite a few folks care, and we do consider them all canoes.... but there have been so many models the names have been used more than once - for instance, there are at least three Vipers - all "canoes". If we put every canoe up it would be well over 300 boats! As I recall there are over 250 open canoes (vs closed canoes, or C1s, which is what the site was originally dedicated to) as it is... and that was a few years ago.

We have seriously considered adding more info on older boats used for whitewater, but for now have stuck to whitewater - specific designs - as you've noted there are plenty as it is! Start adding each Grumman model - and their competition, and you've got a whole lot of boats.

We have been working on some site updates that would allow to sort or filter by any information (designer, length, etc...) but had other priorities (when we have to deal with some of the posts that are written here it takes time away from other development... not this post certainly, but some of the off-topic ones...).

If you have any information, images, etc... you'd like to share please do so ( info@cboats.net ). John Sweet, John Berry, and many others have been very helpful in the past helping us get things straight, and adding to the pool of knowledge accessible by newer boaters.

Marc Evans · Post by **Marc Evans** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:22 am

COcanoe,

You might look into getting a copy of Thrill of the Paddle by Mason and Scriver. Very worthwhile for instruction, and although it is 10 years old, there is a discussion concerning some currently produced OCs. In particular, the Ocoee, Outrage and Viper. However, if you were to pose questions concerning specific boats you will likely get plenty of advice from the group here. Look at the Esquif, Mohawk, Bell and Evergreen canoe web sites to see what is currently produced and ask away.

As for the rivers you are interested in running, I've run a Probe 14, Outrage and a Spanish Fly on various sections of the Main Salmon. Had the Outrage on the Ladore/Split Mountain section of the Green. The Probe and Outrage are soft chined boats, so their edges are less likely to catch and flip you. Both of these boats work well on large volume rivers, though the Probe is a little large for my taste - slower to turn. The Outrage is a faster boat that turns well. I have not tried one of the harder chined boats of the same length (Ocoee or Viper), but everything that I have read indicates that they carve turns faster than a soft chined boat.

For just about all rivers, including the ones you listed, my preference is for the Spanish Fly - a 9 foot bath tub. Although the Spanish Fly is considered a slow boat, I don't think speed is everything. Also, with lots of practice you can get enough speed out of the fly, and it is fun to paddle and play in - eddy turns, peel outs and surfing. Because of this my Outrage is collecting dust.

Don't know if this helped. Just my 2 cents.

Marc