Creek outfitting

[philcanoe]

although that's a possible pinning situation...

It seems a more real life scenario may be getting pinned on a tree/strainer, and consequently forced or laid down on your rear deck. Or even stuffed under an undercut, and thus unable to reach for a release. Just offering a couple different ideas, where someone may end up folded backward over their heels. Either way I'm not sure of the more appropriate outfitting or release system, and even wonder if it would matter (in any of these 3 cases). Have always hoped to free my feet and slide out in this unable-to-reach situation, but am open boating and just gaining the c-boat perspective.

There is one other thing that concerns me more, and that's not getting both legs free. Where one strap is free, but not the other... and then I end up still attached in a rather useless situation. Had this happen by itself once with a velcro strap, but was able to bridge/arch for the surface, and a friend simply rolled the boat over. That again is more likely a canoe nightmare, than happen in a C1.

[TheKrikkitWars]

if you end up in a stern vertical pin and heavy, powerful water is coming down on top of you then you're pretty screwed unless you have immediate rescue. at that point it doesnt matter how well fitted out your boat is, or how easy or tricky it is to get to your straps. lets be real though, the chances of being pinned vertically by the stern are minimal unless you're either paddling a river you really shouldnt be, or are incredibly unlucky.

I can think of a popular section of the conwy which seems to have a couple of vertical pins a year... Generally from very good boaters too, It only takes a half second of cocking up from even the best of people...

The way I'm outfitting the boat is such that even pinned to the back deck I can get a hand to the quck release; and then get ripped out of the boat by the water.

The problem Phil points out is rather more taxing... though I do have an idea of how to solve it, just like Ras-Dex have two release handles, one front and one just by the hip, rig a secondary release cord i can pull on if needs must.

Finally, Jrsh92 yes stern pins happen, usually when someone is franticly trying to make an eddy above something filthy and gets washed down backward, it is rare but it's one of the two nastiest situations for a C1 paddler to be in, along with the "Wrap" and "Smear" type pins that phil was getting at... Given enough thought though I think I can design something to decrease the risk from those situations. Better to consider the worst case than the most likely.

[jrsh92]

Hey jrsh92; is the 92 in your screen name the year in which you were born?

yes

[sbroam]

...And while we're at it... where do you buy those airplane belt style buckles? All I could turn up with a quick search was airplane seat belts complete with buckles, and they cost a lot... is there a way to get the buckles for a reasonable price, separately from the actual belt?

Apparently air plane belts became fashionable and they were being sold by an online retailer - can't remember who, but there were some posts here. I think they were even selling the buckles separately. A search should pull that up.

[TheKrikkitWars]

Hey jrsh92; is the 92 in your screen name the year in which you were born?

yes

For someone from the internet generation, you've not been overly savvy in your choice of username... How long you been boating?

[Larry Horne]

Hey jrsh92; is the 92 in your screen name the year in which you were born?

yes

For someone from the internet generation, you've not been overly savvy in your choice of username... How long you been boating?

uh,oh...

hey the buckles i have are these here- http://www.skybelts.com/about.html
they say they are authentic but i don't know if they are. I don't really need FAA approved buckles for the short flights i take. they do seem well made... had mine for a year now, no probs.
I would contact her and tell her what you are doing with them because she knows people are using them for boating. She has some options that aren't really on the site. she's very nice.

edit;
here's another potential source that is cheaper. looks like there is a stainless version? http://www.gotbelts.com/laponlybelts.html

[C1 8.1]

I use velcro for both knee and lap belt straps. Found a spot for the knee straps that I do not need to pull to get out. Tight when I need them, can loosen when I need the blood flow. Lap belt is what really keeps me on my butt in the boat. My release is a cord with 4 wiffle balls. So yes, I have to pull the skirt then the belt. Yes, I need to continue to practice wet exits. My paddling partners also know how to get me out if needed. Velcro will need to be tighten from time to time, but it has never failed. Only a class 3 creek boater or so. But the velcro has held me splatting the pillow and getting beatdown at the USNWC in a playboat.

Always trying to be patient and not wig out under water and under stress. Good luck with your outfitting choice.

[jrsh92]

Hey jrsh92; is the 92 in your screen name the year in which you were born?

yes

For someone from the internet generation, you've not been overly savvy in your choice of username... How long you been boating?

In what way? I'm not concerned with hiding my age on these forums... unless you're referring to the username on a whole being roughly nonsense, in which case I agree with you.

I've been paddling whitewater for about 3 seasons, flatwater on and off for a bit longer.

[marclamenace]

My release is a cord with 4 wiffle balls. So yes, I have to pull the skirt then the belt. Yes, I need to continue to practice wet exits.

There are simple ways to switch from a 2-pull to a one pull out, releasing both buckle and skirt at a same time. You can do a search on this board and find some pictures.

In my case the buckle strap is long enough so I can make it run under the skirt and about 4inches out. I pull on it and both releases. If fails I can still pull both separately.

[cheajack]

I got my airplane buckles from ebay by searching airplane lapbelt extensions (sold for the full figured flyer so they can have their own and not suffer the potiential embarassment of having to ask for one). For $19 USD plus shipping you get both ends of the buckle connected by a short piece of 2" webbing. A pair is $38. How much is getting loose quick when you need oxygen really worth? I tried them but went back to the Brown Pack Straps.

[dgmonster]

In my diesel 70 creek boat thread I have fairly detailed pictures of a single buckle release system. I can also be release from outside the boat. I can't wait for the summer to roll around and have all my friends pull my exterior release thinking they are funny

[Paddle Power]

re vertical pin, tried to paddle/ramp up and over a solid log/tree that was above the water surface and did not make it, so slide back down and pinned the stern. We had safety in place and he quickly moved into position and all was okay.

[jscottl67]

Just a thought, but on the more open cockpit designs where your feet don't ever go under the back deck would it be a good idea to fashion a solid rear bulkhead a few inches back from the rim?Perrhaps that would prevent legs from being pushed back under in a stern pin?

[OC1er]

Yeah, I've been thinking about bow pins. A worst case scenario could be a mega piton-to-pin, where your momentum combined with the powerful hit could leave you jammed way forward, legs under the deck up to your waist and the cockpit rim in your gut. What about some kind of minicell inserts to fill your bow with foam so forward slide would be blocked? This has been a great thread, last nite I rigged a one pull system for my thigh straps and skirt on the Mystic, feelin safer already!

[marclamenace]

What about some kind of minicell inserts to fill your bow with foam so forward slide would be blocked?