Nev-a-ful

[old]

If it works, great. But since I'm new to a canoe, I do not undrestand the hate toward an "lectric" pump. If God gave you the since he gave billy goats, you would understand that everything changes and some things are new ideas and could be better. This very well may be one. But if it is because it is not traditional, then you will not mind if you break your ankle, we cut it off with a hack saw or shoot you like a horse with a broke leg. We use to boresight tanks with string and binos looking through the breach. Then someone came up with the Watson device (Mr. Watson thought of this, thus the Watson device) and we got a lot better at putting first round on target. In other words, If it works and you like it great. If works and you don't like and come up with something different that works, great. To each thier own. IMHO

[Todhunter]

If it works, great. But since I'm new to a canoe, I do not undrestand the hate toward an "lectric" pump. If God gave you the since he gave billy goats, you would understand that everything changes and some things are new ideas and could be better. This very well may be one. But if it is because it is not traditional, then you will not mind if you break your ankle, we cut it off with a hack saw or shoot you like a horse with a broke leg. We use to boresight tanks with string and binos looking through the breach. Then someone came up with the Watson device (Mr. Watson thought of this, thus the Watson device) and we got a lot better at putting first round on target. In other words, If it works and you like it great. If works and you don't like and come up with something different that works, great. To each thier own. IMHO

I think the Neva-full is a cool idea and will be curious to see if it works. But I have no hate for a pump - I've got one in my boat, and will have one in all my boats.

[Cumnock]

If it works, great. But since I'm new to a canoe, I do not undrestand the hate toward an "lectric" pump

"If it works" speaks volumes

Pumps are great until they don't work...nothing worse then a group waiting on a openboater to dump his boat one more time..esp in the creek run outs (ie bottom sections) when everyone is tired, cold and the creeks are picking up volume.

or on the bank messing with another switch that has gone bad..or "ah man I didn't charge my batteries last night" wth...multi-day trips don't allow that

Phil and I boat together a lot...I'm looking forward to this idea.

from a safety standpoint...I 'm wanting to jump on some big water this winter and I think this is the ticket

BRAVO Phil for going forward with improvement

[gumpy]

sheesh! now i need to turn on my pump just to empty out all those kayaker tears!

[french erick]

I think the holes work very well in a short OC that has a fully foamed out cockpit with bulkhead outfitting and that holds very little water, like a Spanish Fly, Taureau, Prelude and such.

I don 't think I'll try this myself though, for box canyobns and other places where dumping are not an option I have a C1.

TGG!

So you think a prelude would be a goer?
My prelude ain't new nor is it beat...I definitely haven't reach its limits (mine many a time).
Do you think it would worth it early on in my canoeing career? I won't own other boats in a hurry (space at a premium). My first boat can do great things as seen on videos so I'll always be the limiting factor...but would those holes help me improve?
Should I go the traditional way a bit longer to serve my apprenticeship?

Sorry if I'm showing how green I'm but...afraid I don't get the box canyobns ref????

[funkidreadz]

but you'll always have some water in the boat

of course there will always be a little water in the boat, it is an OPEN canoe and we like paddling them through rapids. I like to paddle dry but the reality is it is very tricky and a bit tedious in a small canoe like a S'Fly or a Taureau, full speed through the waves and holes is more fun.

If it works, great.

Dude check my blog http://blog.jamesweir.net/2010/06/still ... ty-of.html
it works I have tried it, tested it and tested it some more, hey I go paddling nearly everyday and it works day in day out.

I carry about 10Litres of water in the bottom of the Taureau with NevaFull, this is way better than sometimes none and sometimes 40+Litres. If you paddle gentle white water where it is possible to spend a day paddling dry lines then maybe this is not the solution for you BUT if like me you enjoy running steep and technical creeks or big volume rivers then NevaFull works a treat.

I think it is awesome that you guys are discussing this so much, the more people think the better the idea becomes.
paddle hard stay safe
JAmes

[philcanoe]

Off for more testing...

As for the pump question... I'd say absolutely nothings wrong, if that's the state of ones ability.

For me it's taking away from the aesthetics, and a bit of an ethical thing. Like playing to win at any cost. Like saying I'm not good enough or admitting defeat. You could say the same about a self bailing canoe, but it's much more passive, and doesn't reek of the techno-geek. The first pump I saw was made with a regular lead-acid motorcycle battery, back in 82 or 83. The guy was a good friend, and we were very much equal in terms of paddling skills. After a little while, he just appeared to stop progressing. And before long I was staying way drier than him. I think not having one forces you to become better. Besides the issue of having something motorized in my boat, I like to think (or at least pretend) as if I'm carrying on a long tradition, one from before the days of man discovering electrical power.

...afraid I don't get the box canyobns ref????

They are 3 sided vertical walled gorges... in our case (because of the river) they usually start with a waterfall or drop. Here's one in Colorado: http://www.riversports.com/site/vallecito_beta.html They usually afford no chance to scout easily (not everything), and are too steep to allow portage or even emptying at times.

...trying a different set up - more later.

[2opnboat1]

I agree with Phil I think pump make people get lazy, and not lesrn to boat dry.

[sdbrassfield]

To each his own on the pumps. I have the pumps in my boats mainly because I do about half park & play and the other half running rivers...

It is definitely a convenience that makes sense doing the p&p, allows more time to surf or get thrashed in holes instead of pulling over to dump a full boat all the time...

It also comes in handy during river runs just to spit a little water out when needed...I always look for the dry lines when getting down rivers. That is the way I learned to boat, and the pumps have not made me lazy or look for wetter lines.

The only drawback to the pump system is the few pounds of added weight. I do not mind carrying another few pounds when it comes to having more time on the water.

BTW before I get flamed, I have two of my ww boats (that get used) that do not have pumps...three that do.

[the great gonzo]

I think the holes work very well in a short OC that has a fully foamed out cockpit with bulkhead outfitting and that holds very little water, like a Spanish Fly, Taureau, Prelude and such.

I don 't think I'll try this myself though, for box canyobns and other places where dumping are not an option I have a C1.

TGG!

So you think a prelude would be a goer?
My prelude ain't new nor is it beat...I definitely haven't reach its limits (mine many a time).
Do you think it would worth it early on in my canoeing career? I won't own other boats in a hurry (space at a premium). My first boat can do great things as seen on videos so I'll always be the limiting factor...but would those holes help me improve?
Should I go the traditional way a bit longer to serve my apprenticeship?

Sorry if I'm showing how green I'm but...afraid I don't get the box canyobns ref????

I nthink it would work in a Prelude, provided you foam out the cockpit as much as possible. That said, I am not going to be the first one to tryu it out on my own boat.
Whether or not is is worth it for you depends on the kind of water you run. If you are on steep creek with minimal eddies or on big continuous water, then it looks like it may be the ticket. If not, you might consider holding off.
I donn't think that the holes will be the deciding factor in anyones paddling skills progession, practice and time on the water is.

TGG!

[Cumnock]

sheesh! now i need to turn on my pump just to empty out all those kayaker tears!

Ha ...far from...you ain't gonna see it...

now far as a pump goes

A pump is the same in the rock climbing world as using a rope to lead climb.


and I still say this is the way to c-boat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvnBcBC6Wqs

and if my shoulder doesn't get better...I'll be paddling a converted boat

[gumpy]

and if my shoulder doesn't get better...I'll be paddling a converted boat

well, the silver lining is at least you'll be in good company!

(and the c1 skirt sheds teardrops nicely)

[philcanoe]

...
BTW before I get flamed, I have two of my ww boats (that get used) that do not have pumps...three that do.

I'm not going to flame you.. those are actually very sound reasons. And no - you're not kneeling on that pump as a crutch. I've other friends who use pumps due to injury's sustained while dumping, like a bad back or brittle bones. My carte blanche statement is not against pump users, just those who'll never learning to run dry. It was not a pretentious look at me, and equally a stab at holes in your canoe. This this should not replace good sound technique, but enhance.

Drilled new holes this morning, at a different location...will post my opinions after a morning test drive... BTW planning/hoping to have on the Ocoee this weekend - if anyone would like to try. Yikes - EGAD - Wow, a total of ten holes now!

[jscottl67]

Whether you use a pump, foam it out, drill holes, use gigantic airbags, or add a deck and skirt, or all of the above - you are reducing the amount of water in the boat. It's a matter of personal taste as to which tools you use, and to what extent.

If you NEED a pump to make a run, it might be a crutch, if it makes it more convenient or enjoyable then probably not. It's like knowing math - you should learn how to do it without a calculator or computer, but at some point it makes sense to use a tool to make the job easier/faster.

Some people are cool with throwing a pair of 60" bags and a bun of foam in an 11 fool canoe, but frown on it if if someone has a pair if 48" bags, a small pedestal, and an electric pump in the same boat. Seems 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to me. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Just my opinion.

[old]

I started some good conversation to have had only 3 Margaritas when I got on here. Thanks guys!!! Everyone have a happy and safe 4th of July!