Compare Probe 12II, and Viper 11 & 12

eddyhops · Post by **eddyhops** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:06 pm

I paddle an Outrage X (six five two twenty) and I can leave the Vipers in the dust. >>

Hmmm...

... fast is a matter of perspective. Slalom course, a V12 will smoke an Outrage.

Geezer- Get the V12, it will take you a few months to pay your dues (i.e. twitching, flipping & generally hating the boat) but, when the groove kicks in, you'll find why Frankie H. is considered one of the best whitewater open boat designers ever.

The Probe is a good boat... but somewhat parallel to what you are used to. The Outrage may be one step further. The similarities with what you have paddled will make the transition to these easier, but to truly jump to the next level is not always a comfortable process.

The Viper, or even an Ocoee, would be a better choice for becoming a better boater, in my opinion.

JD

Kalifornia_Kid · Post by **Kalifornia_Kid** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:26 am

Fast is a matter of perspective...

Hmmmmmmmm....

I smell a challenge.

Also, question......

Why has Dana Henry won the OC Nats five years running in an Outrage?

Also, fact.......

Outrages, Phantoms, and Ocoees each outnumber V12s about ten to one at the Nats.

Not saying that you couldn't smoke me of course, but smoking me and smoking everyone else is a different matter.

Another quick edgy boat that can be really good if you can get the hang of it is the Prodigy.

Good Luck!

Kalifornia Kid

Post by **sbroam** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:48 pm

I think that from a physics/naval architecture perspective, round hulls are faster - somehitng about minimizing wetted surface area. Look at wildwater boats - they have a nearly circular cross section. Our other shapes are to deal with other needs - stability, planing (that's another argument), maneuverability, carving, etc...

I *prefer* a flat bottomed, edgy boat because of how it handles. I *think* I'm faster when making transitions (eddies) in an edgy boat than in a round bottomed boat. It might be just be my technique, though.

I still like the Viper 12 a whole lot! And ifn you was to smoke me on a slalom course, the boat would be the last thing I could in good concsience blame...

Scott

[I've got an ME I'm restoring for use with the kids, so I'll be getting some round bottom boat practive again....]

eddyhops · Post by **eddyhops** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:22 pm

<< I smell a challenge. >>

There was no challenge.

<<Why has Dana Henry won the OC Nats five years running in an Outrage? >>

Maybe she doesn't like the Viper? Maybe she has not paddled one?
Is it possible she could run faster times in a Viper? I don't know, but...

<<Outrages, Phantoms, and Ocoees each outnumber V12s about ten to one at the Nats. >>

As well, this weekends' race (Locust Fork Inv.) it's a pretty good bet that, with maybe one exception, I'll be the only one there with a Viper. It is not a popular boat, for certain... some even "believe" the design to be a little dated. I believe that most don't prefer it because of the break in period... it takes some getting used to.

<<<Not saying that you couldn't smoke me of course, but smoking me and smoking everyone else is a different matter.>>>

I was making no reference to you or me, or anyone else... I was describing my opinion of the boats, from what I've experienced & observed... regardless of who is in them. There are lots of fast boaters out there... A couple of years ago Phil Foti ran faster times than me in his SKEETER (not exactly a fast boat by slalom standards). Could he have run a faster time in a Viper, or an Outrage, for that matter? More than likely.

FWIW, I've had & still have a bunch of boats... glass & plastic. For my general use boat I started in an XL13, went to a Probe12, went through a couple of V12s, am going through my 2nd V11 & Ocoee, & I had/have fun with all of them. The rest of my boats are/have been for racing... or just for fun

My best advice to geezer was what I stated before, with this addendum... try all of them, get what you like, if you find something next year you like more... trade. Paddling should be fun, don't stress over the fine lines between boats, get the one you think you'll enjoy the most now.

JD

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:16 pm

I have to agree with JD.

I've got a bunch of boats, but at any time the boat I like best is the one I'm in. So long as you don't get anything too odd (or if it is odd, try to pay next to nothing) you'll be able to trade it if you don't like it.

Martyn

Kalifornia_Kid · Post by **Kalifornia_Kid** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:07 am

Hey JD
I was just messin' wit ya man.
I've paddled a Viper and I think its a great boat. The only reason I paddle an X is because of my size I sink the Vipers.

Here's hoping there's no hard feelings man.
Later
Kalifornia Kid

Kalifornia_Kid · Post by **Kalifornia_Kid** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:08 am

Oh, and just a FYI,
Dana's a guy.
Kid

NEOC Slalom Rules · Post by **NEOC Slalom Rules** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:32 pm

Dana is a guy? And after all the beers, I've given her over the years. I find this out on this forum. Go figure. No wonder I never even got to first base.

Kaz · Post by **Kaz** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:58 am

Pat,
Sometimes you really scare me. Maybe that's because you live in Vermount.
JK

Kalifornia_Kid · Post by **Kalifornia_Kid** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:23 pm

Haha, just about died laughing man.

And yep, That's Vermont. The state that makes New Hampshire nervous. Of course, I can't talk too much, with everything going on down in San Fran lately its the city that makes the rest of Cali nervous. Just thought I'd let JD know, you know, he said that he though that maybe "she" would do better in a Viper. I'm guessing that Dana doesn't get on this site much, but you know

just in case. Talk to you later.
Kalifornia Kid

C-Forum

Compare Probe 12II, and Viper 11 & 12

Hmmmmmmmm

physics

hahaha