The Esquif Lèdge
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- Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
The Esquif Lèdge
It's finished...
I didn't exactly know where to begin with this thread initially... but first and foremost I would like to start by sincerely thanking Jacques Chassé and the entire Esquif family for taking this boat from something my friends and I had talked about around many campfires, kitchen tables and front porches from concept to a reality. We began with wants and desires which lead to doodles and drawings and then eventually on to a full scale prototype that I could actually test these theories with. From this juncture we were able to evaluate the concepts weak and strong points and make the necessary corrections to ultimately deliver the best performing canoe we could to the public that we felt you rightly deserved. There were many trials and tribulations as well as a few bumps in the road but I can honestly tell you that the moment I put the first production boat into the water that the dream had been realized and we had accomplished every last one of our goals. This canoe means a great deal to me personally for many reasons I won't get into here and I truly hope that it's able to put smiles on the faces of people that paddle it for many years to come.
The Goals From the very beginning this canoe had to be extremely versatile. It had to be able to run rivers with style, to surf a wave or ride a hole with ease and lastly be able to handle the tough demands of running steep and challenging rivers. It had to be as good as or as close to it’s “benchmark” as possible while still having a personality of its own and it had to be dead-on.
The Benchmark As most of you that know me realize my absolute benchmark that has set the standards for this boat is Frankie Hubbard’s Spanish Fly. To a lot of my friends and for myself the Spanish Fly has for the past decade been the ultimate canoe. The "Fly" line of canoes were designed for freestyle but they quickly won over the hearts of boaters that enjoyed paddling steep creeks and eventually the boats started being used by river runners as well because with their shorter length and rocker one could stuff them into even the smallest of eddies and enjoy riding in waves or holes of all sizes. As a caveat to all that's been mentioned was the material they were made from that was tough, durable and lead to a far longer life than boats in the past. Each and every one of those elements would have to be in this boat as well as a few more details that would make it appealing to the traditional open canoeist that never quite warmed up to the general appearance of boats like the Skeeter and the other "rodeo" canoes that had followed after it. This new canoe needed to have all of these attributes but it had to look like a traditional canoe with high ends, it also had to be extremely versatile, it had to have a far drier ride, it had to have a higher paddler weight carrying capacity, it had to have the ability to roll easily and also roll up with far less water inside of it than all other traditional canoes and lastly it had to have greater hull speed than it's benchmark. So... has this canoe met all of these criteria? In my own opinion... it absolutely and without doubt has 110%.
Stability One of the most important goals in the design was to have great "overall" stability. Some canoes have great primary but poor secondary stability while other canoes lack initial stability but have good secondary stability. I've never understood why canoes used in whitewater shouldn't have great "overall" stability. There have been a few boats over the years in my opinion that had good overall stability and once again using my benchmark this boat had to be just as stable as it is in both aspects. Here is what we delivered. The primary stability is solid and the boat feels completely planted. As you lean or heel the boat on to its side the great stability doesn't disappear and one can take it extremely far over onto the side before it will go over completely. There is a very slight sensation of transition while moving from the bottom of the hull to the side but it is never abrupt or sharp but rather very smooth and natural. Great overall stability translates into paddlers being able to focus on paddling forward or to being able to concentrate on moving the boat where they want to go rather than bracing or correcting the boat just to keep it upright. When surfing a wave, playing in a hole, riding down a slide or landing from a vertical drop there is nothing better than knowing you aren't going to be concerning yourself with keeping the boat upright and instead you are able to focus on the moves you are going to make next. This boat has overall stability in spades. Not once while testing and evaluating the boat did I feel that there was a weak spot or even a chink in its armor regarding "overall" stability.
Speed The next question many of you will probably want to know is "How fast is the boat?" Realizing that this boat is only 9 feet and some spare change long it is much faster than a Spanish Fly and just a touch slower than the Prelude using flat water as a gauge. Keep in mind the Prelude is narrower and it has a longer waterline with less overall rocker. Respective of the length class it falls into and its other abilities I would say its speed is perfectly ideal for its platform and intended use. On whitewater I found the boat to be quite nimble and far quick enough to go precisely where I wanted to go exactly when I wanted it to go there. On a wide medium sized and quite fast green wave I surfed easily until "I" decided it was time to get off the wave. While running a series of drops the boat responded quickly to a tug on the paddle shaft to easily speed into and out of the eddies I had chosen without a hitch or without doubt and drama. So is this boat a speed freak like a Spark is on the water? Absolutely not. But that alone is not what this boat is all about at all.
Edges "Am I going to get hammered in this boat because of those edges?" No! The hull is ridiculously loose and in my opinion there isn't any grabiness to it until you get well past the limit or if you would drop the upstream edge when you shouldn't. At the first opportunity I had I put the boat into a large enough hydraulic that I thought most people would avoid and it just hunkered into a sweet spot and wanted to play. I worked from one end of the hole to the other and it never latched on to the boat. I was easily able to accelerate out of the hole with a few quick forward strokes and move along downstream. On a wave the boat was so loose I could easily flat spin to a semi-side surf or go directly into a back surf just by using the edges. My absolute favorite attribute of an "edge" style boat though is coming into an eddy at warp speed and slamming the outside edge into the calm water and having the boat whip around the paddle like some overly exhubarant exotic dancer does on a brass pole to make a really sharp and snappy turn. I'm happy to report that it does that too. http://vimeo.com/15501310 Conversely if you want to cruise into an eddy on your onside there is no funky drama either. This being said it may take a short time for people accustomed to round hulled boats to get used to the edge but based on the feedback other paddlers gave me it didn't take them long at all.
"Let's roll" So how does it roll? Easily and very dry. http://vimeo.com/15413675 As a simple test I rolled it half a dozen times and every time I came back up it had roughly the same three inches of water in the bottom. It never changed once. In another test I filled it up with as much water as I possibly could, rolled and came back up with the same three inches of water. What does that mean? Imagine if you will that you are paddling down a tight canyon or on a big river with limited access to eddies and you have somehow managed to fill the boat up with water. Here's what you do. You find a calm spot, you flip over, you count to three, you roll back up and you will most likely come up with about three inches of water in the boat. If you paddle enough serious whitewater after a while you to tend to learn to deal with having a few inches of water in the boat and this boat still handles well with water in the bottom once again much like the benchmark. Then again the decked model is by far and bar none the driest open canoe I've ever paddled... period. Esquif does offer a factory pump and will gladly install it for an additional price but personally I don't see the need for it on this boat.
Weight & Weight It's not a feather of a boat by any means but it is made from durable rotomolded plastic (149 gallons of volume) and it weighs about the same as an average creek kayak. Personally the slight weight penalty doesn't bother me one bit because using this material means the boat can get used and abused without the concerns you would have with an ABS canoe. Another aspect of "weight" that I'm sure many of you will want to know is how much "paddler" can this canoe handle? This might be an overly optimistic statement but I'd be willing to wager that a person weighing up to 250lbs. "should" be able to paddle this boat without too many issues. I spent a lot of time trying to pinpoint the ideal target weight of as many open boaters as I could and the findings were that most open boaters are in fact not 5'-8" and 155lbs but quite a bit taller and heavier. This boat is designed for the "average sized" canoeist... plain and simple.
Outfitting At the moment Esquif is only offering the improved and more comfortable bulkhead saddle that Guillaume Chassé and I worked together on for all of their canoes. In the future there will be an adjustable outfitting system for paddlers, demos, rentals and fleets that prefer traditional and more versatile strap systems but you will have to wait a little while longer for that. Esquif saw the need and we are working on making it happen. I don't think I need to carry on with which system I prefer but we've taken comfort to a new level. There is far less stress on the hips, knees and ankles and I'd imagine people will be surprised how long they will be able to stay in their boats.
Meeting the Goals So here we are… finally on the water. Can the boat style a river? I think so. When I paddle down a river or through a rapid I make up an imaginary slalom course in my mind by picking out particular lines, eddies and features and try to make them all. Not once during testing was I unable to make any of the moves that I planned to make… laughingly a few times I forgot I was in a faster boat than the Fly and I actually overshot my marks. Snappy moves into eddies were a blast and the current never unexpectedly latched onto the boat to take me where I didn’t want to go. Will it surf a wave or ride in a hole with ease? Yup! I surfed on and played in everything I could find and it never let me down. I felt totally confident in my moves and the boat was loose and always predictable. I even surfed, spun and played on a wave/hole that I was told not to… not because the boat and I couldn’t but because the bottom of the river looks like a cheese grater… again… with no problem aside from the yelling from shore. Will it run the steep stuff? Let me put it to you this way… I don’t need to abuse my Spanish Fly on our creeks any longer… I have a new toy that I feel is going to be even better.
In closing I look forward to hearing the feedback from people that get to try the boat out and of those that are purchasing it purely on faith.
This is my first design… but hopefully not my last.
I sincerely hope you enjoy it.
Length: 9'-2"
Width: 29"
Depth @ center: 17" [decked model]
Depth @ center: 16" [open model]
Depth: @ ends 21"
Color: "458" RED
A few pictures
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... 6d368e317b
Production photos
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... 175affb4f5
Hair guitar
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... 6b807af24e
Surfs like a champ... and it's playful if you like.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... =527006202
Dooley's review...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7962775
Dooley absolutley stomping the Green River...
http://vimeo.com/14182040
Tech tip for decked models...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=#66848
Tech tip for open models...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=#69805
A L'il POV action...
http://www.vimeo.com/15578453
The boys hit the Moose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nxjBXqrQKM
James Weir with Esprit in Mexico
http://blog.jamesweir.net/2010/12/mexic ... -matt.html
Rapid Magazine Video Review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i1pqVCstkM
Aurevoir
Craig
I didn't exactly know where to begin with this thread initially... but first and foremost I would like to start by sincerely thanking Jacques Chassé and the entire Esquif family for taking this boat from something my friends and I had talked about around many campfires, kitchen tables and front porches from concept to a reality. We began with wants and desires which lead to doodles and drawings and then eventually on to a full scale prototype that I could actually test these theories with. From this juncture we were able to evaluate the concepts weak and strong points and make the necessary corrections to ultimately deliver the best performing canoe we could to the public that we felt you rightly deserved. There were many trials and tribulations as well as a few bumps in the road but I can honestly tell you that the moment I put the first production boat into the water that the dream had been realized and we had accomplished every last one of our goals. This canoe means a great deal to me personally for many reasons I won't get into here and I truly hope that it's able to put smiles on the faces of people that paddle it for many years to come.
The Goals From the very beginning this canoe had to be extremely versatile. It had to be able to run rivers with style, to surf a wave or ride a hole with ease and lastly be able to handle the tough demands of running steep and challenging rivers. It had to be as good as or as close to it’s “benchmark” as possible while still having a personality of its own and it had to be dead-on.
The Benchmark As most of you that know me realize my absolute benchmark that has set the standards for this boat is Frankie Hubbard’s Spanish Fly. To a lot of my friends and for myself the Spanish Fly has for the past decade been the ultimate canoe. The "Fly" line of canoes were designed for freestyle but they quickly won over the hearts of boaters that enjoyed paddling steep creeks and eventually the boats started being used by river runners as well because with their shorter length and rocker one could stuff them into even the smallest of eddies and enjoy riding in waves or holes of all sizes. As a caveat to all that's been mentioned was the material they were made from that was tough, durable and lead to a far longer life than boats in the past. Each and every one of those elements would have to be in this boat as well as a few more details that would make it appealing to the traditional open canoeist that never quite warmed up to the general appearance of boats like the Skeeter and the other "rodeo" canoes that had followed after it. This new canoe needed to have all of these attributes but it had to look like a traditional canoe with high ends, it also had to be extremely versatile, it had to have a far drier ride, it had to have a higher paddler weight carrying capacity, it had to have the ability to roll easily and also roll up with far less water inside of it than all other traditional canoes and lastly it had to have greater hull speed than it's benchmark. So... has this canoe met all of these criteria? In my own opinion... it absolutely and without doubt has 110%.
Stability One of the most important goals in the design was to have great "overall" stability. Some canoes have great primary but poor secondary stability while other canoes lack initial stability but have good secondary stability. I've never understood why canoes used in whitewater shouldn't have great "overall" stability. There have been a few boats over the years in my opinion that had good overall stability and once again using my benchmark this boat had to be just as stable as it is in both aspects. Here is what we delivered. The primary stability is solid and the boat feels completely planted. As you lean or heel the boat on to its side the great stability doesn't disappear and one can take it extremely far over onto the side before it will go over completely. There is a very slight sensation of transition while moving from the bottom of the hull to the side but it is never abrupt or sharp but rather very smooth and natural. Great overall stability translates into paddlers being able to focus on paddling forward or to being able to concentrate on moving the boat where they want to go rather than bracing or correcting the boat just to keep it upright. When surfing a wave, playing in a hole, riding down a slide or landing from a vertical drop there is nothing better than knowing you aren't going to be concerning yourself with keeping the boat upright and instead you are able to focus on the moves you are going to make next. This boat has overall stability in spades. Not once while testing and evaluating the boat did I feel that there was a weak spot or even a chink in its armor regarding "overall" stability.
Speed The next question many of you will probably want to know is "How fast is the boat?" Realizing that this boat is only 9 feet and some spare change long it is much faster than a Spanish Fly and just a touch slower than the Prelude using flat water as a gauge. Keep in mind the Prelude is narrower and it has a longer waterline with less overall rocker. Respective of the length class it falls into and its other abilities I would say its speed is perfectly ideal for its platform and intended use. On whitewater I found the boat to be quite nimble and far quick enough to go precisely where I wanted to go exactly when I wanted it to go there. On a wide medium sized and quite fast green wave I surfed easily until "I" decided it was time to get off the wave. While running a series of drops the boat responded quickly to a tug on the paddle shaft to easily speed into and out of the eddies I had chosen without a hitch or without doubt and drama. So is this boat a speed freak like a Spark is on the water? Absolutely not. But that alone is not what this boat is all about at all.
Edges "Am I going to get hammered in this boat because of those edges?" No! The hull is ridiculously loose and in my opinion there isn't any grabiness to it until you get well past the limit or if you would drop the upstream edge when you shouldn't. At the first opportunity I had I put the boat into a large enough hydraulic that I thought most people would avoid and it just hunkered into a sweet spot and wanted to play. I worked from one end of the hole to the other and it never latched on to the boat. I was easily able to accelerate out of the hole with a few quick forward strokes and move along downstream. On a wave the boat was so loose I could easily flat spin to a semi-side surf or go directly into a back surf just by using the edges. My absolute favorite attribute of an "edge" style boat though is coming into an eddy at warp speed and slamming the outside edge into the calm water and having the boat whip around the paddle like some overly exhubarant exotic dancer does on a brass pole to make a really sharp and snappy turn. I'm happy to report that it does that too. http://vimeo.com/15501310 Conversely if you want to cruise into an eddy on your onside there is no funky drama either. This being said it may take a short time for people accustomed to round hulled boats to get used to the edge but based on the feedback other paddlers gave me it didn't take them long at all.
"Let's roll" So how does it roll? Easily and very dry. http://vimeo.com/15413675 As a simple test I rolled it half a dozen times and every time I came back up it had roughly the same three inches of water in the bottom. It never changed once. In another test I filled it up with as much water as I possibly could, rolled and came back up with the same three inches of water. What does that mean? Imagine if you will that you are paddling down a tight canyon or on a big river with limited access to eddies and you have somehow managed to fill the boat up with water. Here's what you do. You find a calm spot, you flip over, you count to three, you roll back up and you will most likely come up with about three inches of water in the boat. If you paddle enough serious whitewater after a while you to tend to learn to deal with having a few inches of water in the boat and this boat still handles well with water in the bottom once again much like the benchmark. Then again the decked model is by far and bar none the driest open canoe I've ever paddled... period. Esquif does offer a factory pump and will gladly install it for an additional price but personally I don't see the need for it on this boat.
Weight & Weight It's not a feather of a boat by any means but it is made from durable rotomolded plastic (149 gallons of volume) and it weighs about the same as an average creek kayak. Personally the slight weight penalty doesn't bother me one bit because using this material means the boat can get used and abused without the concerns you would have with an ABS canoe. Another aspect of "weight" that I'm sure many of you will want to know is how much "paddler" can this canoe handle? This might be an overly optimistic statement but I'd be willing to wager that a person weighing up to 250lbs. "should" be able to paddle this boat without too many issues. I spent a lot of time trying to pinpoint the ideal target weight of as many open boaters as I could and the findings were that most open boaters are in fact not 5'-8" and 155lbs but quite a bit taller and heavier. This boat is designed for the "average sized" canoeist... plain and simple.
Outfitting At the moment Esquif is only offering the improved and more comfortable bulkhead saddle that Guillaume Chassé and I worked together on for all of their canoes. In the future there will be an adjustable outfitting system for paddlers, demos, rentals and fleets that prefer traditional and more versatile strap systems but you will have to wait a little while longer for that. Esquif saw the need and we are working on making it happen. I don't think I need to carry on with which system I prefer but we've taken comfort to a new level. There is far less stress on the hips, knees and ankles and I'd imagine people will be surprised how long they will be able to stay in their boats.
Meeting the Goals So here we are… finally on the water. Can the boat style a river? I think so. When I paddle down a river or through a rapid I make up an imaginary slalom course in my mind by picking out particular lines, eddies and features and try to make them all. Not once during testing was I unable to make any of the moves that I planned to make… laughingly a few times I forgot I was in a faster boat than the Fly and I actually overshot my marks. Snappy moves into eddies were a blast and the current never unexpectedly latched onto the boat to take me where I didn’t want to go. Will it surf a wave or ride in a hole with ease? Yup! I surfed on and played in everything I could find and it never let me down. I felt totally confident in my moves and the boat was loose and always predictable. I even surfed, spun and played on a wave/hole that I was told not to… not because the boat and I couldn’t but because the bottom of the river looks like a cheese grater… again… with no problem aside from the yelling from shore. Will it run the steep stuff? Let me put it to you this way… I don’t need to abuse my Spanish Fly on our creeks any longer… I have a new toy that I feel is going to be even better.
In closing I look forward to hearing the feedback from people that get to try the boat out and of those that are purchasing it purely on faith.
This is my first design… but hopefully not my last.
I sincerely hope you enjoy it.
Length: 9'-2"
Width: 29"
Depth @ center: 17" [decked model]
Depth @ center: 16" [open model]
Depth: @ ends 21"
Color: "458" RED
A few pictures
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... 6d368e317b
Production photos
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... 175affb4f5
Hair guitar
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... 6b807af24e
Surfs like a champ... and it's playful if you like.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... =527006202
Dooley's review...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7962775
Dooley absolutley stomping the Green River...
http://vimeo.com/14182040
Tech tip for decked models...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=#66848
Tech tip for open models...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=#69805
A L'il POV action...
http://www.vimeo.com/15578453
The boys hit the Moose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nxjBXqrQKM
James Weir with Esprit in Mexico
http://blog.jamesweir.net/2010/12/mexic ... -matt.html
Rapid Magazine Video Review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i1pqVCstkM
Aurevoir
Craig
Last edited by Craig Smerda on Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:42 pm, edited 62 times in total.
Esquif Canoes Paddler-Designer-Shape Shifter
Craig, when you have time, I'd like to know what you've learned about chines and looseness versus grab.
I've heard Corran say that a really sharp chine tends to make for looseness, while a square chine with a somewhat rounded profile does not make a boat loose, but makes the boat better able to carve hard because the rounded chine does not let water pass as easily.
I don't own a boat that has really sharp edges/chines. Of the boats I do have, my Millbrook and my Dagger Zealot have definite, but somewhat rounded chines. Both carve better than my other boats, but neither could be called "loose."
I've heard Corran say that a really sharp chine tends to make for looseness, while a square chine with a somewhat rounded profile does not make a boat loose, but makes the boat better able to carve hard because the rounded chine does not let water pass as easily.
I don't own a boat that has really sharp edges/chines. Of the boats I do have, my Millbrook and my Dagger Zealot have definite, but somewhat rounded chines. Both carve better than my other boats, but neither could be called "loose."
-
- CBoats Addict
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:40 pm
- Location: Atlanta
With hard chines, it totally depends on the lean. Keep it flat (slight upstream lean) and the boat will slide. Lean more and the boat will catch. Lean to the offside and the boat will catch. In my experience, this can be an advantage or a curse (when the currents play at you from different directions, like in the swirlies). I love my Cobra but it requires very aggressive moves sometimes, and don't get caught on a strong eddy line! Of course, my boat has a much longer waterline and less rocker than the L'Edge, so I wouldn't expect identical behavior.ezwater wrote:Craig, when you have time, I'd like to know what you've learned about chines and looseness versus grab.
I've heard Corran say that a really sharp chine tends to make for looseness, while a square chine with a somewhat rounded profile does not make a boat loose, but makes the boat better able to carve hard because the rounded chine does not let water pass as easily.
I don't own a boat that has really sharp edges/chines. Of the boats I do have, my Millbrook and my Dagger Zealot have definite, but somewhat rounded chines. Both carve better than my other boats, but neither could be called "loose."
Bob P
-
- BlackFly Canoes
- Posts: 631
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:54 pm
- Location: New Hampton, NH
- Contact:
The difference there is a "hard" chine vs a "sharp" chine. The picture of the Cobra is a good example of a hard chine that isn't sharp- there's no "sharp" angle. It's a matter of semantics, and possibly a throwback to before "sharp" chines where common.ezwater wrote:Yeah, I know about edging and hard chines. What bothers me is that people call several different boats hard chined when those boats differ quite a bit in looseness.
To understand the idea behind why a sharp chine is loose, while a rounded chine isn't, do some reading on the Coanda Effect The idea behind a sharp chine (or "planing hull") is to interrupt the Coanda effect- the water flowing around the boat, to allow the hull to break free ("release) from the water and spin.
Carving is another matter entirely, and has as much to do with the rocker profile and sidewall shape as the chine. But what you said about a rounded chine is right, since it won't release as readily.
BTW, the L'Edge looks like a fun boat- with hard, but not sharp, chines.
David he posted the weight I may need the open model
Closed model 56 pounds, so may need to consider open- both look awesome
NOC will be getting boats soon
Folks in the SE which boat are you interested in buying:
Open
Decked
Open
Decked