Cross forward stroke

[FullGnarlzOC]

Pat - Here's a video of a local class I run last week. Strokes are slowly getting cleaner and cleaner. As for the xDeck J - It's my primary stroke, that and my onside power stroke. Couldn't feel more comfortable with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzGyMWSiAV0

Basically, I throw xDeck J's, until I need an adjustment, then I do a powerface in recovery(thumb in), and duffex as I do that. You also might notice, sometimes the stroke is longer, and I dont snap it out at all... all depends what the boat is doing. And I do so without really thinking about it...which is good. Everything must be instinctual, no question about it.

Let me know what you think. If you're still trying it every now and again, my biggest advice would be, the control is all in the bottom arm, slide the arm out n away from the boat as you turn you're wrist for the "J" and snap it out of the water, n bring it back to the front for another. Rinse and repeat.

[FullGnarlzOC]

After watching the video a few times... Next thing i'd like to start working on, is getting way more forward on the strokes, close to the bow.

I was placing most of my thought process(since it's not totally instinctual yet) on keeping my paddle vertical/perpendicular to the water during the catch phase. That way I don't waste any energy pushing down on the water during the stroke. I owe my thanks to Jim Machaud for that tip, who explained that to me on the UY a few weeks ago.

[jakke]

You seem to have nailed that roll pretty goods. Looks effective and snappy.
Your strokes on the other hand... . Step back, calm down. You wast 50% of your power splashing the water around. I think if you try to cool down a bit more and don't rush, it would already be a lot better.

And you might read that chapter about river characteristics again. You'll probably get out some usefull info on how to keep your ferry-angle better.

But that's just my $0.02

[FullGnarlzOC]

whats a ferry-angle?

[Smurfwarrior]

You'll recognize it by its rainbow color and not quite 90 deg shape.

[Mike Gardner]

Watched the video. Oh to be young and strong.Nice roll keeping the head down. As to the x-fwd stroke not very efficient looking- lots of splashing (actually both sides) and doesn't seem to have much power. It's like all arms and not much else. The x-j trips you up and drives the boat to the on-side There are some really good videos from Kent Ford to Tom Foster and the the NOC that show good form. Try practicing an off side circle. 2 on-sides to set the arc and good form x strokes reaching more forward and end at the the knee. See how FEW strokes you can do to get the job done. Do several times both on and off side. slow down and try to generate more power with your core. You had good form at 1:24 2:12 2:36 when you're on river left. Not trying that x-j just a good, standard effective stroke. Copy your self--no splashes
At Kaz's website you can order the Tom Foster combo. A good video and book. Drill Time and From Here to There are also good.
Keep at it and try making that S- turn to the eddy with 1 or 2 x-fwds only after the peel out. Have to make lots more speed(power).
Good to have you in the sport

[jakke]

whats a ferry-angle?

Time to read those books again; if I remember correctly you told once you had quite a collection.
Try "paddle your own canoe", which is not bad for the basics on flatwater and river.

Hint ferry-angle: it has to do with the position of your boat in the current . I suppose you know what a ferry manoevre is, and also what an angle is. (unless I'm using totally wrong terms here as a non-native English speaker)

It's good that you are on flatwater, stepping back to the basics! But it seems to me you're somewhat missing where to focus on. So maybe it's a good idea to find a good instructor for some courses, even flatwater! You need both: river experience but also good form technique.

@Mike Gardner: From here to there is a really nice video to explain some things, but the form isn't always as good as in the Kent Ford dvd's. The latter has the disadvantage they're a bit outdated on some topics, but only a few.
And I personally don't like the Tom Foster dvd. It's missing the red line, not terribly structured and I don't really like most of the applied techniques. Though I do like some of the proposed moves and drills, I think there is better work on canoeing then that one.

[xmas0c1c1k1]

agreed pretty weak looking offside strokes. sorry but you need to put the xj to rest for a while it doesn't even do what it is supposed to do look at video around one minute you come into the eddy start throwing your xj but the boat turns to your offside so you throw a reverse sweep which kills everything a good power ful cross forward would work much better really reach way forward on your offside you are strong so you could have a very powerful cross stroke but right now you are just splashing water no power REACH FORWARD!!!

[Larry Horne]

you guys are beating a dead horse.

[gumpy]

clean up the catch (wasting energy & best part of the stroke)

lean & reach farther forward, so the shaft arm elbow straightens more.

you should get another 10 inches forward & significant power increase

pull back with your core/torso, while thrusting forward with hips. you seem to be "arm paddling"

arms should provide blade angle, shaft verticality, catch placement. essentially control.

torso and hips provide the pull.

you're off to a great start, now take it to the next level!

[FullGnarlzOC]

joe - because the strokes are so short, the back/hips don't look like they r being applied, but they r. that's where the power comes from... and you know im all about thaaa poweerrr.

But your right... I need to get further in front. I'm just having a hard time feeling comfortable being all the way in front of the boat.

...and whoever said the stroke is weak.... tisk tisk. Let's see yours. It would have to be 1000 times more effective to be more powerful ( have you seen my guns and back!?!?! )

Larry was right... beating a dead horse, I wasn't asking for advice. I was just posting a video to show, how it's coming along(since pat did ask). The only way i'll throw a thumb in stroke (power face in, parellel to the boat recovery) is if I need to make a slight adjustment.

I'm doing a lot of splashing because I'm trying to paddle at 100%...it's not hard to... stroke.... stroke...stroke...stroke and be efficient. Its alot harder to be efficient if you are stroke.stroke.stroke.stroke... and that's what it takes to pull off moves others won't touch, what it takes to get to the next level - which is where i want to be. Better catch phase should eliminate splashing a little more.

[Alan B]

I really hope you are going to the canoe slalom nationals this weekend. It is very close for you so PLEASE go! You will learn more from watching (and trying to emulate) the regulars than a whole season of drills and river running. And I'm not trying to piss you off here but even if you haven't run gates before, I'd wager one third or more of the racers will have faster raw times than you. I saw your guns and back... small women, guys of average build and old guys like me are going to go faster than you and make it look like they're not working very hard.
I have to pass on this year but I will look for your name in the results. Really... go, have fun, learn lots. It is a great group of paddlers who will inspire you to take it to the next level.

[yarnellboat]

I was just asking to see whether you'd given up on cocking your wrists all crazy for that offside recovery. I don't think anyone paddles at "the next level" doing that.

And, I'm not just buggin' ya, I really thought once you tried it in more busy whitewater that you'd abandon it.

P.

[jakke]

I really hope you are going to the canoe slalom nationals this weekend. It is very close for you so PLEASE go! You will learn more from watching (and trying to emulate) the regulars than a whole season of drills and river running. And I'm not trying to piss you off here but even if you haven't run gates before, I'd wager one third or more of the racers will have faster raw times than you. I saw your guns and back... small women, guys of average build and old guys like me are going to go faster than you and make it look like they're not working very hard.
I have to pass on this year but I will look for your name in the results. Really... go, have fun, learn lots. It is a great group of paddlers who will inspire you to take it to the next level.

I have to second Alan, running gates is a way good training. And even on mild current appears to be challenging! I don't totally agree that only by watching you can make a lot more progress then drills on your own. You can get inspired by watching, I totally agree, but without drills you won't get the inspiration to effective technique. And for drills, you either need someone who looks critically at you, or you do it yourself.

@FullGnarlzOC, no you were not asking about advice. Though some people were doing their best to give well meant, constructive advice, as I was. Most people post a video to ask for advice, not just to "show-off" with their progress, or to show how much fun they had/are having. The latter is nice, the "look-what-I-can-do" version, if it was intended that way, didn't really shock me.
On the other hand, when I watch videos of my own moves, I'm seldom pleased either, even though it feels ok on the river, most of the time I see very much room for improvement on video. And that's why I'm still limiting myself to class II, with occasionally class III rapids.

[FullGnarlzOC]

jakke - you mean you weren't impressed with my flatwater paddling? Weren't impressed with that sick nasty S-turn on that badass class I rapid? I'm glad that you are sticking to class-2(Maybe 3) if you see room for improvement. I on the other hand, want to slap myself everytime I find myself on a class II river. Because odds are, I had to drive to get there... and i wasted a day when I could have been doing something that I would have actually gotten something from.

I paddle that stretch in the video, one or twice a week, because it's 15mins from the house, and 5mins from work. And I do it purely to work on strokes.

I posted the video because, someone asked how it was working out for me... and the answer is great. I don't even think about it anymore. I just...do. I'll use that stroke 3 or 4 times as an entry move into class 5 rapids, without thinking about it. Isn't that the goal of every stroke? To be comfortable to the point where you don't think about it? I don't think about a thumb in recovery either... I just do, when I need the boat to be adjusted a tad bit. But like I said before, I shy away from it because I don't get anywhere near the acceleration that I do with a xJ.

By the way... there was once a time, when all the great hockey players had straight blades... don't you think someone said that at one point and time to the first couple of guys that started curving their wooden blades? "No one does that! You have no backhand that way..." I'll keep doing what Im' doing, if at any point and time, I feel hampered by it, I'll give something else the nodd. But at this point, it's my cross stroke that sets me apart from your average 'stern pry master'. If there is someone out there just starting out, and you feel the same way...that you can't get any power off a cross stroke... give it a try. That's all i'm saying.

You don't see me on here asking how I can get a better cross stroke... you know why - because what I have is GOLD for ME, whether it looks that way or not. I fear not the offside, for every offside stroke that I throw, which gives the boat great acceleration... the next person is throwing a stern pry, because they don't have an offside stroke.

A stern pry is a joke. Total beginner move, and should be used when you need to turn the boat very quickly and very dramatically... (although there are better ways to turn the boat and still go forward - bow draws to a forward stroke for instance).