Cost of new boats

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:58 am

Craig - you are right. although boats are expensive... you can definitely get your moneys worth out of them.

I bought my Detonator used from someone on Cboats. A month later on was on the river... and this guy comes up to me and says... "you're not jason" and I'm like huh, what are you talking about... "Well this is jasons boat and you're not jason... I did the outfitting on this boat, those painter lines are from walmart"

Well come to find out, he was right... Jason was the name of the guy that sold me the boat. I also found out, that before I got it...the boat was in Maryland, New Hampshire, Maine, Missouri, Virginia, and back to Maryland... before it finally made it's way in my hands.

With that being said - it will probably die with me, as I love the Detonator. I just wish it was plastic

Jeffrey Ward · Post by **Jeffrey Ward** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:10 pm

Like FullGnarlz, I also have been approached on the river by folks who recognize my boat. I purchased a well-used, white Mohawk Viper 12 a few years ago. It had been owned by several folks in the D.C. area before me. Sure enough, shortly after I acquired it, I was paddling on the Potomac one day when Mike Aronoff, its original owner, paddled across the river to say hello. He said he noticed the white Viper from far away, and figured it probably was his old boat because few white boats were produced.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:39 pm

In the canoe movie is some old footage I gave Will. Frankie, Jamie and Saxdog all three run a drop Blue Angle style in white Vipers. I don't have any white ones right now but If I get one in for sale I'll let you all know.

gumpy · Post by **gumpy** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:47 pm

i've got a white viper 11 that i don't use much, but i like the boat too much to sell right now

cheajack · Post by **cheajack** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:30 pm

Louie, correct me if I'm wrong, but the white Vipers with wood gunnels were made from R-84 and were produced with Team Edge outfitting for the rodeo held at Hades Hole on the Ocoee quite a few years back, like '94ish.

RodeoClown · Post by **RodeoClown** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:50 pm

I'll throw some things into the mix here:

Canoes will NEVER be as cheap as kayaks. More plastic, more foam (probably 3x as much), more shipping costs, AIRBAGS.... there's just more to them. Even if the numbers were the same, they'd still be more expensive.

[quote=FullGnarlzOC] That's why "judgement' is a huge skill to have. One that I have yet to fully develop. Then again, I dont go running things outside my skill level, but I do run lines that are on the edge.[/quote]

Someone much more experienced than me told me early in my paddling that "there's a difference between skill and experience." At the time, I thought he was full of crap. Then when I became more experienced, I understood what he meant, as I saw other new boaters gain skill very quickly with little experience. I've also heard it said that good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.

In terms of new, US made boats, I've got plans for two new boats, one is already in the works. One will be a short "traditional" river-running play canoe, based off the Blackfly hull. The other will be a full on river running/creekboat, based on some sketches I made this spring, and my favorite attributes of my favorite river running and creek boats. I'm HOPING to have these two ready for spring, but I just moved and don't have a space to work right now. Once I figure something out, I'll be going full tilt on them. Both of them will be rotomolded in PE, because... well.... do I really need to say why? Retail, I'd guess will be around the $1400. My experience with the Blackfly is that I can make a boat like this economically, as long as I keep the overhead low. I'm not going to say I'm not in it to make money, because I do need to make enough to make it worth while, and grow my business so I can keep making new boats. Some days I like the work too... mostly the days when I'm on the river.

It would also help motivate me to get those boats done sooner if more people buy Blackflies.

Jeremy

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:18 pm

I do believe you are correct and the white ones were made out of other material than the standard models. I was on team Dagger at that time and never owned one myself.

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:09 pm

As stated, you can buy/sell a used Ocoee all day long in the $500-$700 range..usually within a day or two of listing it for sale. So if you purchase a used Ocoee, paddle it for a couple of years and sell it you maybe lose $100 in value..possibly no loss if you didn't beat it to death. A new Ocoee, in a couple of years, is going to be worth about the same - so you lose maybe $700ish (or more) on the exchange.

I'd say the same is true with a Spanish Fly, though the $figures may be different.

I'm glad that there are new boats out there, and I think the Ledge will sell well, as it is a different design, in a different material, and it seems to be very versatile. Perhaps it will become the one boat in the quiver for paddlers. I also think that at the same time, there will be many that use the same amount to buy a couple or 3 used boats, so everyone wins with the new boats.

phreon · Post by **phreon** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:42 am

Honestly,

I imagine quite a few folks would love to score a brand new boat, but the cost is prohibitive. Car payments, mortgage, braces for the kid.

Old but serviceable hulls might help get people into the sport. It worked that way for me. I'll get a brand spanking new WW canoe eventually...when I deserve one.

Doug

craig · Post by **craig** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:23 pm

I figure a new boat, outfitted, should retail in the $1,500 range. Unless it's a specialty model. Give it 5-10 years of average usage $150-$300 per year is not unreasonable. Then you should be able to sell it used for a few bucks. If you beat the tar out of it and you get fewer years.....oh well
Just wondering how many folks that complain of the high prices have bought a new boat in the last 5 years? As Smerda said if nobody buys new there won't be any used ones out there

gumpy · Post by **gumpy** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:27 pm

RodeoClown wrote: In terms of new, US made boats, I've got plans for two new boats, one is already in the works. One will be a short "traditional" river-running play canoe, based off the Blackfly hull. The other will be a full on river running/creekboat, based on some sketches I made this spring, and my favorite attributes of my favorite river running and creek boats. I'm HOPING to have these two ready for spring, but I just moved and don't have a space to work right now. Once I figure something out, I'll be going full tilt on them. Both of them will be rotomolded in PE, because... well.... do I really need to say why? Retail, I'd guess will be around the $1400. My experience with the Blackfly is that I can make a boat like this economically, as long as I keep the overhead low. I'm not going to say I'm not in it to make money, because I do need to make enough to make it worth while, and grow my business so I can keep making new boats. Some days I like the work too... mostly the days when I'm on the river.

It would also help motivate me to get those boats done sooner if more people buy Blackflies.

Jeremy

now THAT'S what I was hoping for

...put me on the list!

and all you playboaters out there-c'mon, nothing else even comes close to the Blackfly, this much is obvious (even I got a little dizzy surfing the thing

)

SkeeterGuy86 · Post by **SkeeterGuy86** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:11 am

gumpy wrote:
RodeoClown wrote: In terms of new, US made boats, I've got plans for two new boats, one is already in the works. One will be a short "traditional" river-running play canoe, based off the Blackfly hull. The other will be a full on river running/creekboat, based on some sketches I made this spring, and my favorite attributes of my favorite river running and creek boats. I'm HOPING to have these two ready for spring, but I just moved and don't have a space to work right now. Once I figure something out, I'll be going full tilt on them. Both of them will be rotomolded in PE, because... well.... do I really need to say why? Retail, I'd guess will be around the $1400. My experience with the Blackfly is that I can make a boat like this economically, as long as I keep the overhead low. I'm not going to say I'm not in it to make money, because I do need to make enough to make it worth while, and grow my business so I can keep making new boats. Some days I like the work too... mostly the days when I'm on the river.

It would also help motivate me to get those boats done sooner if more people buy Blackflies.

Jeremy
now THAT'S what I was hoping for ...put me on the list!

and all you playboaters out there-c'mon, nothing else even comes close to the Blackfly, this much is obvious (even I got a little dizzy surfing the thing )

wish i could afford one ... and yeah Jeremy put me down as far as demoing the next one as well