What kind of paddler are you? How hard do you paddle?

[FullGnarlzOC]

Larry - you switched to c1 in your old age, because its easier right? Admit it. It's hard when you get water in the boat...

When I introduce a girlfriend to boating, I put her in a kayak; and they paddle fine. When I introduce a buddy to boating... I put them in a canoe, and they paddle around in circles for hours.

If my goal was to get to Class V as fast as humanly possible, I'd be wearing a skirt. But then I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

[Sir Adam]

Sorry Gumpy, no two-blades. I get confused enough sometimes with one

I'm happy to admit I wised up years ago and switched to C1 - I don't like bailing

Like a lot of older C1ers I know, I do expect to move to OC1 at some point, mostly for the higher saddle and cruising ability. Until then I'll make the most of my young (ish) knees!

[agrestal]

the difference is in the gender, not the boat... everyone knows girls are better at everything! :-p

[Larry Horne]

Larry - you switched to c1 in your old age, because its easier right? Admit it. It's hard when you get water in the boat...

Hardly. I got burned out and I wanted to try something new. I discovered c1 was very challenging and even though it set me back a few grades, it was a lot more fun for me.
I still have my oc's and paddle them once a year at a slalom race. certainly could kick your butt in one.

[FullGnarlzOC]

probably larry probably. lol

[ncdavid]

Back on page one, I thought Dan P. and I made the stupidest possible posts in this thread. We have been significantly surpassed.

[bathtuboy]

This is without doubt a ridiculous Poll though it still makes interesting reading. I've put 1 down as it's the closest to what I've always felt about boating.
I'm 41 and paddle Grades 1-5 depending on what my mates are doing and what I feel like. It get's me to the sort of places I like to be. When I set out paddling I had a target to be able to paddle Grade 3 comfortably solo.
Too often the people who set out to be the best as quick as they can become disillusioned when they hit a plateau and drop out of the sport.
Oh and I'm also very competitive so if you see me on the water I'm going to want to be better than you.

[yarnellboat]

FullG, your need to impress kayakers might work to convert a small sub-section of the class IV kayakers who are interested in a different challenge and see what a canoe can do. But it's at the risk of truning off more than it impresses, especially if you're rolling your way down the river. (By the way, I'm not very receptive or friendly to religous people who knock my door.)

A much higher conversion rate would probably come from interacting with newbie kayakers who are just getting into whitewater, and introducing them to a canoe while they're still happy on class II. This requires being friendly, patient, paddling some class II runs, and not telling people that they suck. Give some respect to get some.

Pat.

p.s. Seriously, have you ever paddled a C-1 playboat? Try it, and let us know if you still think it's easier than your Det. Somebody lend this guy their C-1 conversion!

[Lengthy]

FoolGnarlz, you paddle the water not the boat. It doesn't matter what you're in, if the water is difficult it's hard. I'd like to hear the response from a kayaker when you say- you can run any wet line you want and you have a brace on both sides. Kayaks get beat just the same as canoes, I've seen plenty of it.
I'll bet national works YOU the same no matter what you're in.
Quit making such a big deal out of being in a canoe. It's just the medium used to experience the water. We're all doing the same thing no matter what we're in.

[FullGnarlzOC]

In regards to "paddling hard" how many people crank it 100% before each eddy? How many people crank it 100% when they "turn it on" for making moves. That's what I was getting at. I was interested in the correlation between people that paddle full speed/strength during moves, and their skill level, or what they are aspiring to be.

Think of it this way. All professional atheletes, regardless of sport, do whatever they do at 100%. Meaning using 100% of their strength, skill and mental assessment.

The MAJORITY of open boaters/ or paddlers alike, that I see paddling....do not paddle at 100%. Whether you are a good paddler or not... someone with the same skill level as you, that is paddles harder... will be able to do things that you cannot do.

I flipped 10 times on the Lower Yough(only class III) this weekend. It wasn't from comfortably cruising down the river - doing moves I know I can hit, I can tell you that. I could slow it down, and only paddle as half as hard as I was, but how much would I really get out of that in terms of improving?

"Practice like you play" - you guys can say what you want. But there's a reason why people don't refer to this as a sport, more than they do an 'activity' or 'hobby'.

And I'll never stop bashing kayakers. NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

In the end, this poll was to find out how many 'serious' paddlers are left out there. You know, the type of people that hate to come in anything other than 1st, in anything.

[FullGnarlzOC]

And National will continue to work me until it no longer works me... if you get my drift. And then it won't matter what boat I am in. And that time is coming quickly. Because, at least I keep trying. Will you do a move over and over again, that will most likely result in being worked? 16 months Lengthy. Where were you 16 months in? I highly doubt you were on the Upper by then... let alone trying every hard move you could find on it by your second run (with the exception of Time Warp, although the first opportunity I had to run the line with someone that would take me down it, I took it).

Might as well get your cracks in now though - cuz by next spring, you'll be speechless, as I boof over your head at national.

Although, I know that you'd never probably be in that hole cuz you know what are you doing at this point... but you get what i'm tryin to say. Spring '11 - I'm coming' for ya.

[FullGnarlzOC]

Pat - That subsection of Kayakers you speak of....That is EXACTLY who I am looking to convert. You know why? Because if they did... Within 2 years, they'd be styling the river and converting others along the way.

Growing the sport. If this sport was anywhere near as big as kayaking is (or at least doubled in size...which wouldn't be that many more people)... we'd all benefit from it. ALL OF US. Especially those of you that are trying to make a living out of it.

[FullGnarlzOC]

By the way - 5 peopled, posted that they 'paddle extremely hard, want to be world class, ect'...and I didn't even vote.

Those are the people that won't plateau. Mark my words.

There are literally hundreds of young kayakers out there trying to raise the bar every single day... Theres maybe 5 canoers at this point doing so.

You old heads have an excuse, but us younger boaters, need to start boating for the future of the sport, in addition to just 'boating' for ourselves.

[FullGnarlzOC]

Here's a classic example. This was a piss poor surf attempt at Swimmer's rapid on the LY. Cracked my head and elbows both flips, but I kept going back in. Also carried up and tried 5 more times. A little better outcomes surfing wise, but probably not as exciting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i8gl8IVbtg

Even though it was entirely piss poor, I guarantee if you were a spectator, and stayed at Swimmer's all day, that's gonna be in the top 5 things that you remember. Some dude in a CANOE getting trashed and keep going back for more. "Yeah we got to see all these kayakers today and they were surfing the water doing all sorts of spin moves. But then there was this guy in a CANOE..." They'll probably never see something like that again from a canoe in their lifetimes. And you KNOW that's probably true. Even most kayakers will go their entire padding careers without seeing a canoe do something out of the ordinary(goon strokes, sitting on a low brace all, purely on-side surfing, swimming, and stern prying).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMbTsJ7VTuM

Not to mention the 75+ people that were standing on the decks over looking the falls/river, people on rocks, and people on put-in that saw that. Out of those 75 people, assuming half of them went on to tell someone else about their day...and some of the exciting things that happened(seal launch). Consequently, ONE of the people that either saw it or heard the story... started looking into canoeing... You get my drift. (Hypothetically) Or even the 20 some kayakers that were watching... 5 of them have been thinking about switching to canoeing...and then they see someone do that, or even something remotely cool. All I was trying to do was to get some vertical practice, since creeking season is coming, and I haven't done anything real vertical yet.

THANK GOD if you type in "whitewater canoeing' dooleys video comes up. otherwise... pfft.

And as ridiculous that sounds... that's how it happens. That's how you get someone new. When I first started back in may, I didn't know you could even roll a canoe until I saw Dooley's video. That's what got me into the sport. Thanks Dooley, for what you have done, and what you are doing. Few and in between, at least that's what seems like. I'm sorry guys, but it's hard not to get somewhat upset about this. I hope no one takes too much offense to my post... I'm just trying to get things going.

Most people have noticed a lot more OCers this year than in a long time... Let's keep it rollin and all of us normal mortals can help too purely by paddling a little harder/better.

SORRY for posting 5 messages in a row. I just got back, and got a lil fired up over the whole 'rolling over and playing dead' mentality. OBing is probably less than 5% of the overall boating population...

Things have GOT TO CHANGE. I was one of like 5 open boaters, all day on the Lower, out of literally thousands. If we lost ONE manufacturer, our sport would be devastated. Think about that. Not to mention it's 2000 for a boat. I'm at least glad we have them to buy at any price. This is no other than our faults. We are the one's responsible for growing the sport. Us, the little man. Time for an attitude adjustment.

[Mikey B]

Gnarlz...love your enthusiasm!
You are on the road to being a really good paddler...and you've got the cajones for it ...but after you've paddled for a while, you'll see you don't need or want to be 100% hard paddling all the time. If you watch the really good paddlers, they use the river and conserve their energy, but give the max power when max is needed to make their moves. It always looks more impressive watching the good paddlers nailing hard lines looking like they are doing virtually nothing. Nothing looks more graceful in my eyes. They look like they are truly one with the river in those moments.
I think when and if you can make the hard stuff look easy, it might get your kayaking friends interested in at least trying a canoe.
Like your vid's...keep em coming!