Ovation by Dagger comments?

[Einar]

Has any one had experience paddling/owning a Dagger Ovation that can used to compare with other ww boats?
I have bought one in better-than-good condition- a sound hull, and am considering what to do with it and who it would suit as a paddler.
To start the pot boiling, how would it compare with a Phantom or an Esquif Detonator or ...?
For a point of reference I am a long term paddler of Viper 11's and have owned a Quake, a Probe, a Detonator and tried my luck in a Zoom and Spark and Viper 12.
Thanks for the comments, there just aren't many or any of these boats in my neck of the woods, west and north of 49. I just got it and haven't had the chance to test drive.

[milkman]

People on the forum seem to not like the Ovation very much, but it was my first OC1 and I found it very forgiving and a good boat for beginners. I still have one that I use to introduce people to whitewater canoeing. I also use it for solo tripping. It's a great boat for learning surfing and it's very good on waves.

It does have some cons. It's slow. (We sometimes call them Slovations.) So it's better for a stronger paddler. Its soft chine isn't very responsive, so you really have to heel the boat over to get it to snap into an eddy.

The boat it most reminds me of is the Nitro. Both are slow boats with bulbous bows that make them dry canoes and surf machines.

I have one friend with an Ocoee and an Ovation. For the gnarly stuff he takes the Ovation.

I've also paddled Phantoms. The Phantom is much more responsive than an Ovation and accelerates well. Like the Ovation, it's a great canoe for surfing. The Phantom is better suited for a lighter paddler (under 180 pounds), where the Ovation could handle someone bigger.

[pyc1]

I test drove one when it first came out, looking for something more performance-oriented than my Prophet at the time, and was sorely disappointed. As the previous poster said, it's stable, tracks well, and would be good for teaching someone to solo canoe. It's less performance-oriented than any of the boats you list. Maybe a slightly more playful Impulse.

[DougB]

I had an Ovation as my first boat. It was super stable and great for surfing. Contrary to what everyone else will say I did not find it all that slow. I paddle an Outrage now. Not a big step up but in comparison the Outrage is much more responsive.

[milkman]

Interesting what you say in your comparison of the Ovation and Outrage. My own take on it is the only advantage of the Outrage is acceleration and glide. For surfing and goofing around catching eddies and such, I'd prefer the Ovation. The fact that it's a foot shorter makes it feel more responsive than the Outrage. Plus the Ovation has good secondary. The difference between the two boats to me is that the Outrage is for river running, the Ovation is more geared towards river play. Neither boat is as much fun as a Phantom, Zoom, Prelude, Ocoee, or Solito.

[vann evans]

I was on Team Dagger when the Ovation was first introduced by Dagger. My wife and I both got one of the first boats available and still paddle them today. I talked with Steve Scarborough about the boat, it's characteristics and how/why it was designed. he told me the boat had been designed as an all around solo boat that was playful, stable and predictable. The designers made the boat higher performance than the the retail model which was sold. In order to appeal to a broader range of paddlers, the boat was somewhat "detuned" for the masses.

In order to get the maximum versatility(read handling and speed), the Ovation must be tweaked from the stock version. The key to a better Ovation is the length of the various thwarts. By narrowing the boat, one is able to dramatically change the handling characteristics. the boat becomes much faster and more nimble.

There was recently another series of posts with discussion and references to an article about thwart length and how it would affect handling, speed and stability. This is a perfect example .

There are 5 thwarts in the boat-measure each one of yours and compare them to these measurements in my boat-
bow end --12 3/4"
2nd from bow--20 3/4"
center(right behind the seat)--24"
rear--20 1/2"
stern--11"

some of my thwarts have been shortened as much as 2 1/2" from stock. Play around with the lengths and see what a difference they make-you will be surprised what an Ovation can do in the "new" configuration.

I would like to hear responses from anyone who does change their thwart lengths and see what they think.

Vann Evans

[milkman]

Sounds interesting, but as you bring in the thwarts, you flatten out the rocker. That will affect performance as well--perhaps negatively.

[sdbrassfield]

If you are pulling in all the thwarts at one time, it likely won't flatten out the rocker that much. If you just pull in the ones in the middle it will...Interesting thought on pulling them all in. It would likely give it more edge and responsiveness, hmmm.

I still have one and for park & play, and surfing it is better than my other four, more agressive boats. I do not use it much for down river stuff, but definitely for park & play. I also do not find it THAT slow...Some people do not like them though they probably have not spent alot of time in one, especially park & play.

I have spent a good bit of time in a buddys detonator and think the boat is very much like the detonator. The Detonator (10' vs 11' for the ovation) is at least a tick SLOWER that the Ovation too me. Can not comment on the nitro as I have not been in one.

Have been in the phantom a number of times which felt totally different than the ovation/detonator. Much looser and twitchier, hard to compare those two but was still on the slow side.

Had my first ride in a raven this weekend (first one I have seen on the water). It felt similar in some ways to the ovation. The concept behind the hulls looks very similar. Can not really comment on it as I did not run it downriver, just surfs and it did not do too bad, but it did feel like a bigger boat even though same length. It looked alot like the ovation, might be because of the designer...

My Ovation has a purpose. I use it mostly for park & play when I really want to have fun...

[Shep]

There are 5 thwarts in the boat-measure each one of yours and compare them to these measurements in my boat-
bow end --12 3/4"
2nd from bow--20 3/4"
center(right behind the seat)--24"
rear--20 1/2"
stern--11"

Vann,
Thanks for the info! This might keep me from going for an outrage or ocoee... Am I correct to assume that these measurements are actual thwart measurements, and not the outside of the boat at the point where the thwarts are attached?

Thanks,
Shep

[Einar]

It is always this way. Have just finished oiling the gunwales and putting some spar varnish on the thwarts and taking a break I opened up to Vanns post. Now this makes it fun.
My boat has wooden gunwales and no center thwart or any sign of one previously. As the royalex is showing between the gunwales I used royalex inside edge as a measurement reference. I took my center measurement from immediately behind the seat, guesstimating, as the difference in that area doesn't vary that much.
Bow: 13-3/4
Bow2: 23-1/2
"Cntr": "26"
Stern2: 23-1/2
Stern 13-1/2
Let me know if we are working off of different points but the 2" difference matches your descriptions.

Boat serial #: DA023367D797
The rivers are starting to rise locally for our winter paddle season so as soon as the oils dry I'll take it out and try it in its original configuration
and then try a short thwart version.

[vann evans]

The measurements that I gave were actual thwart lengths. I will give additional measurements that shows the distance from the bow(actual royalex) to the center of the thwart:
bow to thwart thwart length
13 12 3/4
36 20 3/4
78 1/2 24
97 1/2 20 1/2
123 1/2 11

I paddled mine (with the thwarts shortened per above ) and then paddled Laura's(with thwarts shortened slightly) and I can tell a lot of difference. My boat is a lot faster, more responsive and slightly less stable(due to rounder lower hull profile). Another factor is weight-I changed out the vinyl gunwales and deck plates-put on wood. that saves over 5 # of weight.

Try playing with the gunwales-maybe cut a little bit and paddle. cut a little more and compare. they make a difference.

Hope this helps.

Vann Evans

[zen_ben]

I will second milkman's post. I bought a used Ovation in great condition for my wife's first solo boat. She got out a couple of times this summer and was very pleased with the stability and dryness. We've been paddling tandem the last few years but our oldest son is now joining us. So he's taken her place and she's stepped out on her own.

I'll save the modifications for her next step.

[Craig Smerda]

The boat was named by Laurie "Zen" Netzow from Wisconsin while she was down as an instructor and safety boater while doing a "week of rivers" with Juanita Guinn back in the day.

I'm not a fan of the boat... but Laurie gave me my first and only paddling instruction a very long time ago. FWIW... Laurie doesn't own one.

[Louie]

I built the table for the Ovulation (bottom part the mold sit on) I thought it was a dog them and I can believe it got any better. Unless you got a hellva deal on it they are a whole lot of better boats out there, a profit is even better, if you outfit the profit backwards

[Einar]

Chances are I'll get a test run in this weekend for an opinion.