How does Fear affect your paddling?

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:24 pm

Adrenaline is great, some need more, some can only handle so much of it. some need less.It affects everyone different and we all need to respect each others personal choice. If I am at a difficult rapid and we are scouting I only try to discuss what we see in the rapid. If someone asks do you think I can- I tell them to decide for themselves.

Now if it is on a course, I tell them options and consquences or I let them come up with them first. I also read the student- I have students that a swim on an easy Grade 2 rapid could be a huge huge deal and I may advice against running.

Adrenaline is like any drug once u get hooked you need more and more and more and more. Some get addicted and some dont, just rememebr the more you need usually means the consequences are also higher.

I am with Louie it is a personal choice and sometimes it takes even more balls to pick up your boat and start walkin

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:54 pm

The problem with sketchy boaters is they put THE GROUP at risk.
I could give a rats a$$ about someone who doesn't care if they live or die today, that's their deal. But I and the group will sure as heck deal with the mess they might create.

Knowing a boater who lost her life dealing with such a mess has made me a little more careful who I boat with. I could care less if someone thinks I'm scared. That's just childish.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:57 pm

And it comes and goes, what you have run a thousand time you might decide to walk it on any given day, but by the same tokin you might never have run the monkey and then one day all of a sudden you see a line. We are all adults and responable for our own choices, so even if I give you a weaver to sign before I boat with you ( you know the one I am talkin about if you don't I will ask some one to post a picture of it, or just talk to gabe he saw it) it don't mean I don't want you to run the chiit, I just want it written down I didn't make you do it.

oopsiflipped · Post by **oopsiflipped** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:00 pm

Nothing to see here folks<edited>

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:11 pm

Larry very very good point
There are people I will not paddle with,not many but I have been burned in the past. Having a solid group to paddle with is so important. Knowing your back up is solid is a good feeling. Not being able to trust your back up and you just hope to get to the takeout. The back up may be No more than another person there as many rapids all they could do is to pick up pieces at the bottom.

When I started boating, if the group I paddled with was going somewhere beyond my skills they would not even talk about it around me. What I did not know did not hurt. They were very safety orientated and they had lost a buddy open boating- they did not want to lose another.

Louie good plan to have a waiver as when things go wrong there is always someone looking to point fingers and the more experience you have the greater the chance of someone pointing a finger at you. It sucks but it is the reality.

I used to refuse to lead trips for the local club as they did not want to have any club policy on safety gear- ie they were ok with No floatation. I said I have too much to lose. I dont want to be be at the put in telling someone they cant boat with the club if they did not have floatation and look like the thin pointy death trap.

It is each paddlers responsibility to show up with the right gear and in the right state of mind. It is not fun to boat with those that dont and if they are not willing to change they usually dont get a second invitie
sometimes it is just educating them.

I try to have an extra helmet and a float bag in my truck, never know who forgets something- including myself

Walsh · Post by **Walsh** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:31 pm

Louie wrote:And it comes and goes, what you have run a thousand time you might decide to walk it on any given day, but by the same tokin you might never have run the monkey and then one day all of a sudden you see a line.

That's exactly the break point. I remember looking at a rapid this fall, and feeling that negative, gut-twisting fear. Before hiking back to get my boat, I took a pee break. Turned around, and there, dadgumit, was the line. Positive adrenaline took over, and the same urgency I had to walk was pushing me back on the water.

I don't just push through the earlier sensation I had, though. Fear serves a purpose. Reading your own thought processes can be as important as reading the water.

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:43 pm

I think I missed something oopsiflipped
or is your post in jest?
I did not see any personal atatks from Louie and if there were one would have some inside information.

If it was not in jest then I would say time to grow some thicker skin? Louie has some quality advice if you read between the lines and been around longer than many of us.
He is a real resource here. I have never met him but would be happy to go boating with him, even if I was only shooting video and holding the rope. He has give me some good advice and inforamtion when I have PM him and more than willing to share any info he has.

If you dont like his posts dont read em

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:46 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

imo... if you don't understand group dynamics... this ain't your sport

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:24 pm

Well said Craig and I do agree the sport is a lot about Group dynamics
that is why not many boat alone. But I can atest to good adrenaline rushes when paddling alone and you dont need as hard a rapid.
It is amazing how when someone is there to watch the fear is a little easier to conquer specially if its a her

And solo all by yourself is not more dangereous and probably even safer as you are making your all the decisions on your own. You analyize the risk for yourself and the consquences. No outside influence, just purity of yourself. It is a great feeling

ckingoc1 · Post by **ckingoc1** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:31 pm

Hey, I didn't throw a bullet in the fire! And don't you talk about my moma!

Mr.DeadLegs · Post by **Mr.DeadLegs** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:41 pm

HA A waiver, sounds like a stinkin club trip. Got to love the litiginous society we have made for ourselves. It turns my stomach to think of signing a release to paddle with a person or group.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:49 pm

That is one thing aboutt he GDI we tell you up front it is every man for himself. while we never ask for help, we also feel no obligation to help, ya we will, particulary if it is a bad sistution,however you should approach every rapid as if you are the only person in a hundred miles.Before you run any rapid, please realize you are in your boat alone, if you yell for a rope someone in our group might have a rope but if you yell rope and don't tell us to hold on to one end we are likely to throw the whole thing. Always plan on bein self supporting and consider any help you get as a bonus. when we started out it was two of us thant new nuthin about rescue and knew each other did know anything. As we brought new people on board we stuck to the old rules, we have become quite good at rescue but we don't advertise this fact and want everyone we boat with to be willin to take care of themselves. When one of our group swims you will see no mad dash to put out the smoke and jump in the boat to go help, if we are in the water and we do go to help it is just so later we can give you hades about havin to have us save you. This is one of the reason we are bad about throwin the rope back at who ever threw it to us while we were swimmin. Our group dynamics is save your own butt, save your own gear, our line could be six inches either way, if you can't run with the big dog stay on the porch. All that bein said, if you tell us at the top of the rapid you think you are goin to swim will we come and help you, we might tell you yes or we might say no way in hades.

Boatin is an indivual sport done in a group, but not to share skills just to shavre shuttle and safety ( totally different safety than what this thread is about).

Gage you must another complex beside the many we already know about. You should try and run to the admin that worked for crybaby and you are everybit his equal, now that is not a personal attack that is a complement on how good you are at whinnin.

Please don't listen to a thing I say, you should follow what gabe say...no wait his avaitar says don't take anything he says serious he wear a pink helment and wear a dress...or something like that.
Gabe hold another Poll maybe the number will go better for you this time.

someone please post that waver that is in WRWW, our weaver ain't what you might think

http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/f ... ?f=5&t=820

the really sad thing is the person who is so convienced i am goin to kill someone, will go to his grave disapointed if I don't and he doesn't get to say I told you so. Now that is the person you don't want to boat with. see Scott since you started boatin with us and he won't call you to go with him we have done you a favor

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:54 pm

Deadlegs often it is not the paddler that may sue, it is there family and sometimes it is out of necissaty. We have by the sounds of things much better health care in Canada.

Being dead is one thing but being critically injured for life is very expensive. People will do whatever it takes to help out their loved ones. I can understand it from both sides.

Waivers are there to protect organizers of events from people going after them when accidents happen. It is not a great feeling as an organizer to have worry about.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:54 pm

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:04 pm

Phil sorry but I dont get it. Spit it out if you are tying to say somethin.

Louie that is an important point of putting the cards on the table at the put in. Everyone knows em, no surprises, you either buy into em or you dont. I am sure if people dont like me u tell em to find some one else to hold their hand.

I have lots of time today -36c outside so no boating for a bit.

I think this is an important topic Tommy posted. WE all have Fear and we all deal with it differently and Fear is a great crippler in all walks of life.