The Re-Birth of Canoeing (plastic canoe era)

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:17 pm

Blast
Detonator
Nitro
Paradigm
Salsa
Spark
Taureau
Vertige
Vertige X
Zephyr
Zoom
Prelude
Raven
Spanish Fly
L'Edge

That's a lot of ww-specific canoes for one small canoe-only company in a short window of time... isn't it?

Cheeks · Post by **Cheeks** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:41 pm

That time period had nothing to do with designs. There were more cboaters simply because there were only cboaters. Canoes were the only whitewater vessel available. Imagine if no kayaks existed today. There would probably be more canoeists. Canoeing shrank as more options became available.

And as to why we would want to grow the sport, how about because it's fun? I've simply stopped justifying it beyond that. If people see how much fun I have on the river and want to be a part of it, grab a paddle and jump on board.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:58 pm

The type of people that are going to be man enough to drive the sport to new heights, are going to be the type of people that connect with "the canoe being the ultimate man craft"....just my opinion... but what the hades do i know...

Larry - as for why it's important to grow the sport, and why we care to grow it... well anyone that is a TRUE AMBASSADOR for the sport, FEELS that the sport is so great...that everyone should do it, in one facet or another - whether it be flatwater, class III, or V+ Creeking - and goes to much lengths to let the people know in one way or another.

Aside from that - growing the sport is good for all involved. Whether you are a new paddler, an instructor, distributor, manufacturer, or someone who just hates looking at so many kayaks...everyone benefits. As the sport continues to grow, we hope to see more canoe manufacturers, more canoe designs, and more innovation in general in the sport.

Furthermore... too many good boaters kayak....imagine if some of them canoed... it would be really cool... not just the same old boring kayak footage that any ones grandma can put out.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:02 pm

You should support it larry - cuz when these kayakers switch, and start trying Openboating... they will most likely eventually fall in the middle grounds and join the C1 scene.

It takes a special type of person to be a loyal Open-boater(majority of the time). Whether it be you like the added challenge that the 'open design' presents, or how 'elegant it is, when done right'? Maybe you appreciate the 'historical value'... or because 'its sick nasty badass'...either way "Openboat...it's the only way to travel"

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:59 am

FullGnarlzOC wrote:You should support it larry - cuz when these kayakers switch, and start trying Openboating... they will most likely eventually fall in the middle grounds and join the C1 scene.

It takes a special type of person to be a loyal Open-boater(majority of the time). Whether it be you like the added challenge that the 'open design' presents, or how 'elegant it is, when done right'? Maybe you appreciate the 'historical value'... or because 'its sick nasty badass'...either way "Openboat...it's the only way to travel"

Tommy, I think I support canoeing plenty. My c-boat count is Five brand new OPEN canoes.. Most of them mohawks by the way. A brand new atom, sight unseen in the first months of release. My rand new wheelboy was in THE first shipment to the states. Umpteen brand new paddles.
I'm creating outfitting for c-boaters with my own two hands for a buck fifty an hour.
Soooo, what more do you want me to do...you want me to send you a check?

Tell me, How many new boats have you purchased?

You can spout off and shoot video till the cows come home and this will still be a niche sport. Always.
And that's just the way I like it.

Cheeks · Post by **Cheeks** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:14 am

What's the harm in having Tommy try to expand the sport? For a year I've watched people crap all over him. Granted, occasionally the stuff he says is a bit extreme, but at the end of the day, how does his fervent advertising of the sport affect us in any negative way? Yeah, it's probably always going to be a niche market, but to each their own.

The way I see it, if you don't want to promote the sport, then fine, it ain't a requirement. If you want to promote canoeing, great, it's always good to have an ambassador for the single stickers out there. Who cares? Let's just find some moving water.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:55 am

you make it sound like i want to sabotage the sport!

nope. but all this preaching to the quoir does get on my last nerve and make me want to tune out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEX56Wnk ... re=related

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:59 am

what if we found a way to convert c-boats into [gasp]... kayaks!!!

oh... that'll never work...

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:05 am

now THAT.. would be a money maker!

Wiggins · Post by **Wiggins** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:27 am

Canoeing is experiencing a resurgence in the PNW (which is weird because we were never a canoeing mecca). Two years ago a friend of mine and her husband sold their canoes (all to people out of state) because there were no canoers here to boat with. A year later canoes are showing up on Craigslist and there are a handfull of people out in canoes regularly.

I would love to see a plastic creeker in the low to mid 10' range. In the mean time I am looking for a used Phantom.

I bought a new Probe sight unseen with no one to show me the ropes. Six out of seven kayaks I have bought were new as well. If you build a boat I want I will buy it, but I won't buy a boat I don't want to fund the one I do.

Kyle

Rand C1 · Post by **Rand C1** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:41 pm

All of the contributions above are thoughtful, and insightful. I agree with all that has been said.
Rand
I think so anyway, read it all fairly carefully.
Oh I only read page 1
Never mind
really good thread though
I would really like to try a L'edge

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:01 am

My bad larry - when I said support... I was referring to your question of "why do we WANT to expand the sport....and I was simply giving reasons for why that is a good idea - and why you should support the idea of growing the sport (u prob alrighty do, but I was taken back by ur question, as if u dont know why it should be grown)...

Glad to hear your newest boats are Open boats. U'll look better in an open boat. Besides...someone needs to start 'the movement' in Cali. You and Smurf have some work cut out for you...but I think you are in one of the best spots in the country for it to grow massively.

It's only a niche sport until it gets out... almost all sports were niche sports when they first started... I think u guys are right about we need to get boaters that aren't boaters yet... more focus on that, less focus on converting yakers.

We've done a lot of talking... but not that effective execution, and it's going to take all of us getting the right idea and rollin with it to let the people know how great a sport whitewater canoeing is on the soul. I'm not talkin to any one person here...

I honestly think that if more of the world enjoyed the sport of whitewater boating... the world would be a better place.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:05 am

Hm. Too bad neither Larry nor Smurf are in CA.

If we each promote the sport as we are comfortable with it will grow. Not everyone wants glory... but hopefully all are doing it for their own enjoyment. THAT is contagious, regardless of your reasons why.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:19 am

boating for personal enjoyment is great and all...but the sport needs tons of people boating for glory. If we get to that point... we won't be having this conversation anymore... as fun as it is

you dont need to boat the gnar, or be seen by people to experience the joy of glory at the end of a good run....but I think we need to make it known to our kids, grandkids, and any other young gun for that matter...that if they eat all their wheaties, stay in shape, stay active, and get out and push their selves...that one day they may even be able to achieve OpenBoatin highest glory....Green Narrows Race Champion..... Then you show them a the 2011 FullGnarlz Green Narrows Race video...w/ 10 OBers flying through 'the thunderdome'...and that's the stuff kids dream of.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:43 am

Tommy you got it all wrong . Again.

. All my open boats were worn out and broken years ago. I do have two that still float but i never use em. So don't start thinking you converted me

Second. I really don't think "the sport" should be "grown". Not that it makes any difference what you or I think or do, because.. the sport will do what it does. It'll grow a little then decline a little, and repeat.
IT IS WHAT IT IS.
If it was ever going to become wildly popular, it would have happened already.

I understand that boaters want more toys, and companies that make the toys want more boaters, so they can make more money, and hence make more toys. But there's something about making due that appeals to me. ..I get a frightening amount of satisfaction every time I strap into the custom outfitting in my boat

I think that IF the sport was huge and there were more cboaters than kayakers... and IF you could just go down to the shop, plop down a wad of cash for your choice of eight different cboat designs and be boating in that puppy minutes later... and IF there were 200 cboats in the green race..
I think cboating would loose much of it's appeal.
Also, I think the cool small builders would eat large steaming pile of dog doo. The Big Boys would swallow you up.

If any of you were into mountain biking in 1979 or the early eighties then you probably know what i'm talking about.

I like the fact that if you see another c-boater today, you will know them. If not, you will get to know them. That wouldn't be the case if the sport was huge.
You just said it yourself in another thread.. something about not wanting to be just one of 200 kayakers in the green race. If you had your way, you'd be just another dime-a -dozen open boater

peace