Class II-III-IV

bobthepainter · Post by **bobthepainter** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:17 pm

the void between slow water paddlers ,and white water paddlers is HUGE!

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:37 pm

...slightly overweight middle-aged dads...

Ouch, that describes me! Yeah, OK, I guess nobody wants see video of me paddling!

I like some of Milkman's class III vids of people working beautiful rivers better than some of the class V gnarl that's all boof and drop and splat and no actual paddling.

If we're talking about videos that people buy for entertainment, I can see why it's class V, the purpose of those videos is to be "rock 'em sock 'em", and that's people buy them see the extreme, fantastic and cringe-worthy - same logic applies to all sports vids and ads.

I agree with the theory that there's recruitment value in class II-III videos - and since when did canoeing class III-IV become boring, not in my books! - but I don't really see a market for distributing the class III vids, other than YouTube, on which there's 100 crap vids for every inspiring one, even if people know what they're searching for.

One opportunity would be the oft-talked-about needed instructional DVD for class II-IV canoeing (and skipping the flatwater basics), which could include lots of video just for fun & inspiration.

I wouldn't buy a video of class II-III runs for entertainment, but I did buy "This is Canoeing" and "The Canoe Movie" and I would certainly buy a decent instructional video.

Who's finally going to make the instructional DVD for class III ww canoeing?

Pat.

cheajack · Post by **cheajack** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 pm

I've often thought that "video guide books", show casing various craft running several lines at different levels including several Class III-IV rivers in a common geographical area would be a good seller and promote paddling to the broader public ie, paddler's guide to the Chattooga watershed for example. Most paddling videos showing 3-5 sec segments of folks hucking waterfalls one right after another bore me! Not to mention the inappropriate language in most of the sound tracks. I have to watch them after my kid goes to sleep. How is that going to get any new young people into the sport?

Making movies that show people paddling for "glory" (I quote Tommy) will attract people just like that, who will run anything if the camera is running (referred to as videots by some). What's wrong with Kayaking today (IMO) is that too much emphasis has been placed on the extreme sides of the sport. I'd hate to see what has happened to kayaking, where people are judged by their paddling resume rather than what they bring to the sport personally, happen to canoeing.

And as for recruiting 10-15 open boats to compete in the Green Race next year; well a large showing doesn't equate to a good showing. As much harm as good could come from having most folks get munched.People are lining up already over in the Kiddie Pool to say , "I told you so!"

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:48 pm

Get a bowl of popcorn and take some time to watch this...

http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7960286

Although it's from a few years ago... I think this is really a great example of some "real world" ww-canoeing that was done by someone that isn't a ww-cinematographer. It's at least the best one I can think of at the moment.

Not related to the subject imo... but this is really a cool little "guide book" style video...
http://www.vimeo.com/6925707

fez · Post by **fez** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:52 pm

class 3 can be fun to watch also: http://www.vimeo.com/18326730

Dooleyoc-1 · Post by **Dooleyoc-1** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:59 pm

Great videos Craig. I hadn't seen those before.

gumpy · Post by **gumpy** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:01 pm

when i was a non-boater, it was a youtube vid of some pretty serious cl5 openboating that got me hooked. on video, cl2-3 looks like flatwater, no matter what music/editing you use.

here's the link, i'm sure most of you have seen this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87_qBovy9ag

rockyboater · Post by **rockyboater** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:09 pm

Most videos that come out focus on the shock and awe experience. What ever the sport or the level of white water, the goal is the same. Make them selves look as good as they can. So through fancy editing and music they pull off that feel. These movies are great to get you all pumped up to run hard water or to look forward to a new season. But they lack human connection and emotion. All that is edited and thrown away. There is an old ski movie called "Immersion" that I feel really captured this feeling more than any other film i've seen yet. Can't find any clips sorry. But it followed some skiers for a year and really showed the way they live, feel and interact with the mountains. Another would be the new bike film "Life Cycles". Not as personal but really captures the emotion of the sport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJgaSTuwp7I
I think more movies like these will continue to be made from time to time and I hope that someone with a boat gets the idea soon.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:18 pm

You know...as far as the class II-III-IV videos....we have hundreds of members that spend their lives paddling Class II-III-IV... and shoot mediocre video doing it. A little more effort on shooting, along with a little more effort to make "class II-IV appealing" would go a long ways(or so u guys think).

I'd like to put out a class II-IV of "Pushing it" and Explosive paddling. And perhaps that will do something.... but probably not.

People that don't know the sport cant keep their attention long enough during a Class II-III video to get out of it what you want. But you throw in some sicknasty drops....now all asudden you have their attention.

As for ppl lining up at the 'kiddie pool' ready to jump on us Openboaters for getting munched....It's easy to do that from the sidelines, or easy to do when you kayak. I won't take much stock in anything anyone says about someone ATTEMPTING to run the Green in an OC. And if they press me on it... I end it with "dude...u paddle a kayak..."

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:37 pm

Dooleyoc-1 wrote:Great videos Craig. I hadn't seen those before.

Seen this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFGCZZV4 ... re=related

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:47 pm

FullGnarlzOC wrote:You know...as far as the class II-III-IV videos....we have hundreds of members that spend their lives paddling Class II-III-IV... and shoot mediocre video doing it. A little more effort on shooting, along with a little more effort to make "class II-IV appealing" would go a long ways(or so u guys think).

People that don't know the sport cant keep their attention long enough during a Class II-III video to get out of it what you want. But you throw in some sicknasty drops....now all asudden you have their attention.

Get a good quality camera... take some II-III ... throw up some slalom gates on it and watch Kaz or Andy Walker run them at full steam. Lot's can be learned... if one is willing to really study.

Frankly... I think the big difference between a decent video and a great video depends on who is running the camera and editing the footage... not necessarily the subject matter... that... and I loathe loud crappy music.

Mikey B · Post by **Mikey B** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:28 pm

Yeah, I think a lot depends on how accessible to WW you are as well.
If you don't have it close by, one is less inclined to give it as much thought. Many are content to be great paddlers on their local waterways. Then a small chunk of those are looking for more of a challenge or step up. I don't know, but maybe it's because I grew up paddling where I am, and having gotten proficient here and looking to expand my horizons a bit got hooked on WW. But already being a paddler, I look at class V stuff differently. I appreciate the needed skills and dangers more, so class III-IV is entertaining too as it looks more accessible near term.
I know for me, I love seeing videos (and pictures) of rivers I'd like to someday paddle. Those have gotten me dreaming more than the :Gnar" even though those are great to watch too.

Mikey "trying to get better" Bolton

xmas0c1c1k1 · Post by **xmas0c1c1k1** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:32 pm

someone drifting down class three definitely not that interesting. There has to be something more if there is other content it can be a good film. Such as an expedition where the main focus is the adventure and less the whitewater. I do enjoy watching slalom which is often on easier water, but those paddlers one not be considered class 3 boaters.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:56 pm

Dooleyoc-1 wrote:PS- I easily could have given up on paddling to spend more time focusing on skiing, wakeboarding etc... back when I was a teenager and getting started if I hadn't seen the video Southern Fried Creeking, where Psycho styled Overflow Creek (class V) in a 14' canoe. Very sick. I knew whitewater canoeing was the sport for me when I watched that video (I'd been on maybe 10 trips and was liking it but that was when I got hooked)

That's just my personal story. I had already seen the video solo playboating (which is mainly class II-III) but watching southern fried creeking was what got me fired up about the sport. Before watching that video I didn't even know that it was possible to run class V rapids or waterfalls in a canoe because my dad and I were self taught and the only open boaters I'd ever seen were other class II paddlers on the Hiawassee and Nantahala

You know what's sort've funny...?

Evolution... that's what's funny.

Long ago in a land far, far away when gas was less than a dollar... every month or so we used to get these things called "magazines" we'd anxiously whip through just hoping for a glimpse of a new canoe or seeing pictures of some daring feat like an open boat running a 8ft drop... and maybe once a year... a new VHS tape or two would come out that had a canoe in it... or even better... an entire video about canoeing or c-boating. That was it. Now... with the worldwide-interwebs and the ability to shoot, edit and post footage in a matter of minutes or hours plus the vast amount of it... new "stuff" just doesn't seem to have that whole "wow" factor like it used to... or possibly it's just me.

Maybe I'm just getting old... I'll probably call Jacques tomorrow and order a square stern canoe... time to walk away from all this hi-tech new fangled ww-craziness and start focusing on something more relaxing... like motor-trolling for some Pike with my lucky Daredevil.

SkeeterGuy86 · Post by **SkeeterGuy86** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:01 am

i feel that if you were to make a video showing more than just class V .... yeah if you were to film people playing on class III but also include some of what can be done in these boats

that would make for an interesting video

C-Forum

Class II-III-IV

Instructional video needed