question on nesting canoes

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:11 pm

To fly in to a location on a float plane, we're being asked to nest our canoes. We're bringing two Dagger Legends.

Has anyone here ever nested two of the same kind of canoe? Can you do that? Or does one canoe need to be a bigger canoe than the other?

We know we'll have to remove the deck plates and thwarts of at least one of the canoes (the outer one). One thing that has us concerned is that the Legends have gunwales were the gripping edges are facing in about 1.5 inches, not out, something we anticipate will make it harder to nest the canoes.

Eric Nyre · Post by **Eric Nyre** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:33 pm

What type of plane?

Planes like Twin Otters can normally take the boats inside. It doesn't have to be a perfect nest, but they'll have to somewhat set one inside the other (just remove thwarts, no need to do end caps).

If it's a Cessna they'll want to strap the canoe on the outside between the pontoons. Fit becomes a little more important there, but I've never nested on one of those (too small to carry 2 boats/ people/ gear).

Talk to the pilot and find out where/ how the canoes will be carried. If they're flying you in, odds are they've done this a few times and can tell you exactly what you need to know.

Einar · Post by **Einar** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:50 pm

Yes, it is done with different hulls; never heard of it with the same hulls.
You didn't say what aircraft you are using.
With a Twin Otter your boats will be inside the the fuselage but on a Beaver your hulls will be outside on the float struts. Centre of gravity combined with weight placement will be an issue that you would defintiley want to be on the same page with the pilot on. Might give him a problem with getting up on float step, a problem I had with a 206e with 17' Tripper on the struts. We had to undo the seat belts and jam forward.

You might want to PM Yukon on this before he leaves for Mexico, it's a mode of travel in his turf.
Where ya going?

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:08 pm

Nesting 2 of the same boats for a trip is a lot of work- it can be done but may even involve taking off the gunnels, which means bringing a rivet gun on your trip. I have been trying to compile a list of which boats next togethor as the question comes up every year up here and I always have to rack my brain on which go togethor

tennOC · Post by **tennOC** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:54 pm

Not all canoes "nest" either. Mostly depends on the shape of the tips of the canoe. Learned that the hard way.

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:19 am

I'm not handling the plane reservations, but the person who is, is on it and has been talking with the pilot. We have to nest 2 canoes to go on one float and nest 2 canoes for the other side. We're all going to test nesting our canoes prior to going up there (Nahanni). Sometime in the next two weeks we'll be trying to make a Dagger Legend sandwich. Hopefully we won't have to go as far as removing the gunwales--though the owners of the other Legend were saying they always wanted wood gunwales ...

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:37 am

Whats your third boat? I think you will have a struggle to get 2 legends to nest. So the sooner u try the sooner u will know. The Nahanni is a great trip. Do you have any other choices besides the Legend, there is lots of flats on the trip. Wenohan makes a big tripping boat, or the Legend may fit into some 17 foot tripping canoe.

Let us know what u get sorted out. Yes that is correct- canoes on either side of the plane- 3 boats, 2 nested, 6 people in the plane- sounds like a Single Otter.

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:23 am

You might be surprised at how floppy the boat is without seats and twarts. I think that they will nest, however you will need to remove the deck plates of the outer boat. To make things easier to reassemble once on the river, set deck plates up to reinstall with ss nuts and bolts rather than rivets. You shouldn't need to remove the gunnels.

BTW I'm guessing this will be a single Otter.

Post by **sbroam** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:56 am

I have heard that when your canoes start nesting, that means they are about to reproduce. Best wishes on a large, healthy brood!

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:03 pm

I'm hoping that when two Legends nest you get a Dimension.

I'll report back on the attempt to nest the boats. I also have a Dagger Venture, but I think the Legend will be the ideal boat for this kind of trip. It handles Class 3+ water fine (which there will be some of) and holds a ton of gear. We'll be on the water for three weeks.

Eric Nyre · Post by **Eric Nyre** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:10 pm

Where are you putting in?

Moose Ponds (my preference) has a few interesting rapids, I'd want the Legend over the Venture. Honeymoon/ Island Lakes on down is pretty much flat and even in the lower canyons you can run just about anything if you stay to the side of the waves vs in the middle of the train.

Einar · Post by **Einar** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:27 am

Great river, sounds like you got it figured out. I'd plan giving Nahanni Butte a pass unless you are really really into mosquitos.
We paddled and floated from Krause Hotspring to Blackstone landing in one go (70 miles), very cool in the arctic evening as the Laird river is a good flkoat. Good way to finish.

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:05 am

We are putting in at the Moose Ponds and I've heard from others to avoid Nahanni Butte because of the mosquitoes. I'll be packing a bug shirt, gloves and deet.

Paddle Power · Post by **Paddle Power** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:30 am

I've nested two same canoes before.

Leave in the inner canoe as per normal.
Remove the decks, seats, thwarts, yoke of the outer canoe.
Stack together. Expect about half a foot of the hull to stick out. Once on the plane struts, the tie down will force them together a bit more.

As stated, take ss bolts and washers, plus some screws for the deck plates close to the end where you can not use bolts or if the gunwales interfere with the use of bolts.

The key to nest canoe is the shape of the bow ie lack of recurve.

Isn't there someone out your way how does far north trips? Give him a shout.

Eric Nyre · Post by **Eric Nyre** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:24 am

We had the worst mosquitoes from Moose Ponds to where the Little Nahanni flows in above Island Lakes. Full bug suit,thick shirt/pants and heavy gloves. When you wiped your rear it would be red from smeared mosquitoes.

Island Lakes to Virginia Falls we almost always had hot/ dry camps and no bug problem. At the falls they were slightly annoying, lots of bog areas. The lower canyons were like above, almost bug free for at least a week.

Nahanni Butte wasn't too bad, had one camp on the Liard that was as bad as Moose Ponds. I think they spray at Blackstone Landing, didn't seem too bad there. We launched from Ft Simpson and initially planned to paddle all the way back, but some in the group were homesick so called a cab from Nahanni Butte to pick the drivers up at Blackstone.

Totally awesome trip. Lots of bears and wolves. We were run out of camp one night by a wolverine (waited in boats for it to leave), most everything else seemed slightly afraid of us.

One night in the upper section (camp not too far above Hollywood) we had heavy rains. It doubled the size of the river, and had we not tied off boats they would have been swept away. I thought my tent was pitched in a high spot, but woke up to water lapping just outside the door.

Dark tent and sleeping mask are worthwhile. You tell the time by the position of the sun, noon is south and midnight it's north.

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