Why do canoeists trash-talk kayakers?

[cheajack]

I bet my adhesive is stronger than your adhesive, so there! (smells worse, too)

[ESP]

Tommy. You say that 'class 5 in a cqnoe is as knarly as it can get". I agree that it is challeging but not the pinnacle of knar. Go out and watch Jeff Snyder run "Big Splat", the Upper Gauley, or the Lower Moose on a strider. He does it with style and he does it for himself. I"ve done striding for about 6 years (not to Jeff's level) and enjoyed it. Now I am taking up OC1 to learn something new plus it's a lot easier on this 59 year old body. It's one thing to rib your buddy in jest about what he/she paddles and to promote the sport but if you really believe the stuff you are saying you are misstaken. The various disciplines all are FUN for different reasons and this is how it should be.

[gumpy]

tommy, maybe instead of smack talking kayakers you should learn to respect women, and decide just how you plan to look after my grandchild. maybe it's time to sell the canoe

[Sir Adam]

Friends smack talk friends for the fun of it, just like most "team" sports if you will.

Where it gets away from what is intended is in groups you don't know - be it on the river, or online. Rather than coming off as a fun loving paddler, you can come off as a real jerk and turn folks off of that segment of the sport.

Some things you express in person you just can't online, even with the use of the "emoticons".

In the end, most posters here have it right... we're all out there to have fun and enjoy the water for our own reasons, and it doesn't really matter what craft we use (though I do think most of us would frown on whitewater use of a jetski )

I'm still waiting for the "no holds barred FullGnarlz Open Canoe Forum" to start up - I'm sure that will be much less "boring" than it is here.

[RodeoClown]

I'm with ESP on this one. There are things out there harder than open boating. They've even made striding harder by doing it on a board and using a single bladed paddle. If you want really kgnarlzy, start dropping stuff on a SUP board. I tried it once, and had trouble ferrying in class I+

[kabuki_blaze]

I don't post on here all that much, but I have boated with a few of you..I do read the posts on a daily basis and feel a need to chime in a little... I typically try to stay out of this conversation due to its volatile nature and it also just perplexes me..

Why is there such insecurity about the canoe, I don't get it? I started kayaking 15 years ago, was a raft guide, and switched to canoeing two years ago for several reasons, all of which are mentioned in the Canoe movie (see Dooleys intro interview), which has nothing to do with trying to be better than anyone in any craft.

One of the main reasons I switched is the mellow attitude of folks that paddle canoes. I noticed immediately that you could go out on a river and have a connection with your fellow open boater. I think this is due in part to canoers being a minority on the river, so it’s good to see brethren. Why the comparison of what is more extreme, who cares, run the river, huck a fall and enjoy it. I usually stay out of this discussion because it seem pointless, but I am at the tipping point. I am a canoer, not canoer trying to be as extreme or as badA#$ as a kayaker. I do want the sport to grow, but there is also part of me that likes being the minority and being part of a subculture that values just running the river for the sake of the experience, regardless of difficulty.

Why worry about what kayaker says? I question why would you boat with people that talk sh&^ behind you back?

[dafriend]

It's been my observation that, for the most part, cross-platform dissing is good natured in intent. The exceptions are usually people that have been exposed once too often to the attitude that their way is the right - the only true way. That kind of egocentric opinion is not uncommon in individuals with the immature world view of someone looking through the haze of a hormone induced prolonged post-adolescence. Or it could be a straight-up case of narcissism or other conceit.

Any kayaker that comes up against a OC driver with this kind of problem attitude is bound to come away accepting the jibe "Half the stick, twice the thin pointy death trap" as true. It works both ways.

Tommy, If you really want to prove you're bad-butt as it gets then abandon boats all together. Try swimming some gnar in nothing more that a farmer-john wet suit. That's what I was into during part of my prolonged adolescent period. You could make it a more canoe like experience by tying one hand behind your back.

I love your enthusiasm. I admire your drive to advance your skill level. I applaud your efforts to promote open boats. But for cripes sakes lighten up. Try diplomacy instead of confrontation. Please. We don't need any additional OC detractors.

Dave Friend

[philcanoe]

• FullGnarlzOC wrote:
  
  ... It is the pinnacle sport of whitewater paddling. There is nothing harder, nothing more awesome than styling the gnar in a canoe...

:yawn: (thanks FEZ)

You ever seen a good ClassV squirt boater, or how about those boogie boarders that go way big (ClassV), or ever tried to hand paddle a open canoe (besides playboating) in the big stuff ... now that's some G'nar. (AS WELL as the fore'mentioned SUP Dropping and Striding). ClassV canoeing is just an extension of doing something fun... The best I've seen doing in style (for years), are not doing it to simply be a bad butt, but just because they could. They rest are mere dim memories, usually forgotten or remembered as such. It's just most openboaters just learn in stages, so they don't get so overwhelmed, or seem to make it all that gnarly.

profit's of g'nar - click me

[marclamenace]

Canoeing a popular class4-5 stretch last summer a came across a kayaker who looked at me punching the class 5 ledge where everyone's taking a break looking for carnages. My stern catched but I still managed to brace far and done nice. He looked at me and cheered, telling me how much he admires canoers for these cross-strokes and all that technique we show sometimes... Nice down-to-earth guy anyways.

Then he goes letting me know that he is, after many years kayaking, now taking a new challenge at going down these type of rivers in that small playboat he's in instead of his usual creeker. (saw that from many yakers before also)

So I reply why won't you learn to paddle a canoe then, if you're looking at a real challenge?

-"meh..."

No way he's going to be attracted by canoeing for developing better or new techniques, looking the gnarlest dude around or whatever the like.

Then I went telling him that although it's all nice game these one-day rivers, for me there's really nothing like the feeling of being on a multi-days whitewater trip with friends, camping gears, fishing rod, beer, etc. I went about how unique to me is this contact with nature and how numerous awesome rivers you won't never be able to do in a kayak just because you can't put much gears at all in these things.

-"Yeah well... that must be nice that's true..."

The reaction I got was surely better than that of a "my grandma can kayak", whatever happened with it, to me it's a better way to explain people this kind of stuff than just talking smack.

[Paddler]

I'd just like to remind us all that WHITEWATER DOESN'T MATTER. In the grand scheme of things this selfish activity that we enjoy so much, doesn't matter to anyone other than this very small clique of people. Whether you paddle a C-1, k-1, OC-1, OC-2 etc., means very little compared to the violence (economic, physical, racial, ect) that occurs around the world on a daily basis. Whitewater is awesome, but lets remember it is a distraction and ultimately unimportant in the grand scheme of things. And the whole argument of K vs. C is boring and a waste of resources.

I'm sure kids in palestine would love to even consider whether kayaking or canoeing is more "Gnar", who cares about gnar anyway? Congratulations, your gnar, I baked a bunch of cookies for you and they're in the mail, and when you make a DVD I will use it as an expensive beer coaster to protect my sweatshop manufactured table.

What I'm trying to say is this never ending argument whether canoeing or kayaking is better or worse is dumb and a waste of the communities time, and realistically comparing a canoe to a kayak is like comparing apples and oranges or Democrats and Republicans. There is no way to say that one is intrinsically better than the other

With that said, Canoeing sucks, kayaking is dumb, rafting is stupid, and squirtboating is lame.

[Eli]

I like to think I can jump in any boat and make it across the river to help if an emergency arises. That being said, after dabbling in kayaking, poling, riverboarding, et al, open boating is still my favorite.
I try not to fall victim to trash talking kayakers because I have so many kayaking friends, but I am disturbed at the number of open boaters I know that when they decided to start, our kayaking brethren continually upbraided them and told them to "wisen up".
I still remember once while I was repping canoes and I was talking with a family about the joys of canoeing and a Jackson boater (not sponsored) walked by and told the Mom she should "give her son a chance".
This is why I have a chip on my shoulder, but I prefer to let my paddling talk for me, and I will paddle with most anyone...

[Einar]

Why trash talk your kayak friends when you can give them a Viper 11 Enema to two kayaks co-broached on a tight pourover on Lynn creek. Blew them right out of the system and then some. What are friends for anyways.

[FullGnarlzOC]

Ya'll are confused. The canoe is by far the sweetest craft on the water. and kayakers r sissys. There's no debate here.

[rockyboater]

Tommy, I'm guessing you don't have to many friends on the river.

[padlcnu]

I would just like to point out that all the really good canoeists (sp?) Kaz, Dooley, Eli, and more, do not trash talk. They don't impose their views on others, or critize those that have different ideas of a good time on the water. Search the site and read their posts. They are secure in their skills and an asset to our little community.......