FullGnarlzOC wrote:...you are going to pretty much naturally have a good onside stroke, as every canoer does.
Wow, this borders on delusional. There is a lot that goes into the forward onside stroke, and it takes years to perfect. Good forward strokes were few and far between at race day on the Tellico.
Was there a more tactful way of expressing your dissent?
Joshua Kelly - "More George Smiley than James Bond"
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
A great forward onside, with all its subtle variations for sure would be the thing to get perfect to me, because it is so hard to get to perfection and you need it all the time!
Then I like so much my onside draw-duffek-whatever-you-may-call-it; it turns and braces at the same time, and keeps me close and ready for the forward stroke I'll most probably need right after: I WISH SOOOO very much I could do the same on my offside. Oh yeah that would be cool. Then I could throw my roll to the wastebasket!
FullGnarlzOC wrote:...you are going to pretty much naturally have a good onside stroke, as every canoer does.
Wow, this borders on delusional. There is a lot that goes into the forward onside stroke, and it takes years to perfect. Good forward strokes were few and far between at race day on the Tellico.
1. A real, non auto, cross boof; because it's hands down the toughest physically and mentally to pull off. And it's so much fun. A nice big boof entrance into a rapid is cool... but a CROSS boof entrance into a big rapid is the best thing there is about cboating It's like winning the lottery (and for me, about the same odds) when you get it right.
2. Forward stroke; it's boring, but it's the most important one.
I'm with oops on the roll too. Mine has been going down the crapper since the conversions have gotten so much better. Playboating would fix that, but creeking is just so much more fun.
Onside forward stroke and off side forward stroke (finished with a cross stern draw for off side ferries). I'd have to exclude a roll as a stroke on philosophical grounds because it places emphasis on the paddle when the hip snap is the most important component of the roll.
I would have to agree with a onsude fwrd stroke, and being abble to do it on both side, left and right!! If you master your strokes and you hit your line, no need to roll... but a bomb proof roll would be nice!
FullGnarlzOC wrote:How would 'most canoers' not at least have a decent forward stroke. I dont get it.
Probably because they spend too much time messing about with other strokes that are less important. A decent forward stroke takes a long time to master, and needs constant work. Most probably don't realise how deficient their forward stroke is.
Which I already have. I heavily relly on a crossbow stroke. I can lean way over on the offside comfortably, put my paddle in the water and stroke. Also comes in supper handy when doing an offside ferry peel out.
And the Low-brace is pretty much as essential. You can't master your combat roll until you have the low-brace down. The low-brace is the second half of a full offside roll. (going over offside coming up onside).
These two are supper essential but there are many more tricks and techniques out there that will come in useful over time. Some of you guys are probably like me. You can do 20 different strokes but you have no I dea what they're called. Just kinda learned from years of paddling.
What about the cross bow reverse draw? obviously not the most important stroke out there, but it has saved my line multiple times. It's a nice stroke to use when running the Notch/Gorilla direct as a right hander. You charge the notch and get spit out quickly with momentum towards the right. As soon as you pass the wall on the left, you pull a cross bow reverse draw (half reverse stroke, half draw stroke) to bleed off some momentum and pull the bow back to the left to set up for the Gorilla launch pad. When it works, it feels really cool, when it doesn't, there might be some consequences. Here's a picture of the stroke on Decker's creek, pulling away from this undercut junk on the right. http://gallery.me.com/jackditty#100091/DSC_0108
This stroke is nice because once it's completed, your torso is in a perfectly wound up position for a strong forward stroke to finish off the move.
jay
I think a lot of it depends on where you are in the learning curve and what you're focus is. Examples, racers are quite forward power stroke oriented. Corrective strokes can be real momentum killers. Playboaters find rolls really important. Certainly not saying that racers don't have strong rolls and playboaters can't move a boat.
I'm overdue to hit the lake this spring. I find flatwater very honest for working on things without letting current help me cheat. Where I notice holes in my paddling get the lion's share of attention. This past year I realized that (too) much time in a butt boat really hurts your cross strokes.
I've been using that cross-draw to get left angle where I need it in a hurry. (I'm righty.) I lift up my left edge while while doing the draw....and the draw comes from behind and arcs around into a regular draw just like you're describing. I can get my angle fast and then hit the gas. Very useful indeed!
It's like winning the lottery (and for me, about the same odds) when you get it right. 
