LiquidLogic Jefe C1 questions

Barskekarsten · Post by **Barskekarsten** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:17 pm

I have just finished my LiquidLogic Jefe conversion. I have never seen a C1 in real before I bulit this one, so this is my first short canoe. I wanted a OC1, but it was impossible to get one at a reasonable price in Norway. The best and cheapest was this Jefe i bought from a friend.

It’s built from descriptions found here and ideas from this website: http://www.riverrunner.de/?page_id=154 Since I am the only canoe oriented paddler around here I have nobody to ask for help, so I ask here.

Trim? Here is a photo from my first test paddle today. (Also my first winter paddling experience.)

Does the trim look OK? The picture is taken when I am trying to look straight forward and not leaning towards any end. The sprayskirt is a standard NoName K1 skirt. There is also a video of me paddeling a few strokes. (remember it is my first time in a canoe shorter than 15 feet) http://folk.ntnu.no/karsted/hosting/bad ... cnique.MP4(.MP4, 12Mb)

Second question: If you see anything terrible/dangerous in these photos please tell me. I am learning by trial and error here, but I don’t want to drown because I misunderstood something I read on C-boats.

Photo of my homemade outfitting. There is a cam lock in front that holds the thighstraps. From the cam lock there is a strap going under the sprayskirt and over the cocpit rim, so when I pull it the sprayskirst pops off and the straps are released. Almost a exact copy from Raphael Kuner’s outfitting. I am at least going to put two more inches of foam between my knees and cut down the ankle blocs a bit.

Photo of the moron owning this strange creation.

I was impressed by how stable it was. I expected it to be very unstable and tippy. I actually think I can learn to paddle it.

My plan is to spend som time in the pool and get a decent roll. Then i can practice paddeling technique (and not just swimming technique) on the river when te weather is getting warmer.

I hope some of you will find some time to answer my questions.

Karsten

Lennart · Post by **Lennart** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:57 pm

congratulations, it looks good. but I am not a c1 specialist. the trim looks like it shoud do.

have fun in the pool.

rockyboater · Post by **rockyboater** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:26 pm

Looks pretty good. I would maybe move forward an inch or two. You look just a little heavy in the back. It looks close and once you get on moving water you'll have a better idea. I'd also build some sort of back support. It will give you more comfort and control in the boat. Also put a bigger grab loop on your release, if your new to this it can be a scary trying to find that thing in a hurry. Looks fun!

fez · Post by **fez** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:01 pm

looks great, congratulations!

I wood add a backrest to the set to keep you from slipping backwards while paddling and rolling.

Eli · Post by **Eli** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:34 pm

It looks good, but I will echo the suggestion that a backrest for support would move your body forward to get your spine closer to the midpoint. At the moment, it looks like you are a little stern heavy.

I also think you will appreciate a thin piece of minicell that is on the top of the cockpit and folds around the inside of the cockpit. This will feel better when your hips slop against the side of your boat.

Have fun playing with it!

Perhaps you can make the European C-boats Armada?

Barskekarsten · Post by **Barskekarsten** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:04 pm

Thanks for the replays!

I think I will make a new seat with a backrest. It's made out of extruded styrofoam (XPS) so it is really cheap and easy to form. When I look at the pictures afterwards it looks like I am stretching the front of the spray skirt so I still have some space to move forwards.

@Eli: The idea of minicell on the cockpit rim is god. I have the rest of the "LL bad butt" kayak outfitting I can use for that.

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:45 pm

If you want hip pads in it, which I always use in my C1s, you can fashion one out of any piece of plastic that forms an L-shape and some foam. Or if you use G-flex epoxy, you can bond foam right to the plastic in a really bomber way, then build foam hip pads off of that piece using contact cement or whatever.

It looks great though, keep tweaking the outfitting over time if needed, so that you are very secure but not totally stuck in there. Its a balance and as you start to paddle harder and harder water its more important to strike that balance correctly, so that you don't fall out of your outfitting or get ripped out of your outfitting, and so you can get out of the boat easily enough when you're getting the beatdown of your life.

coloradopaddler · Post by **coloradopaddler** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:47 pm

When i was trimming out my remix i ended with the LL logo pretty much horizontal. that seemed about right. i'd try to move it forward a bit too.

cheajack · Post by **cheajack** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:08 pm

I have never done a Jefe, but in a Remix 69, the set back ended up 8" from the back of the cockpit rim to the front of the saddle back rest. I tend to paddle forward.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:16 pm

i think the seatback in matt's jefe is at ~8 or 9" as well.

BTW. there are more mild mannered boats out there, so don't get discouraged if this one kicks your butt.

Barskekarsten · Post by **Barskekarsten** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:12 pm

Sorry for not updating here.

My laptop charger died and Acer needed two weeks to get me a new one!

Thanks for all the good advises!

I have added two more inches of foam between the knees and bulit a complete new seat. Now i am stretching the front of skirt tunnel so I am as far to the front as I can get in the K1 skirt. The seatback is now ~6" from the cockpit rim. I glued some foam from the K1 outfitting to the cocpit rim as well.

I took the boat to the university kayak club pool session last week. The pool staff is really strict, but got a special permit to bring my own boat. (Disinfection and stuff) Everybody in the kayak club has been really helpful all the time.

The modifications worked out rally well. It was a lot easier to paddle with the weight shifted forwards. To my great surprise it was a lot easier to roll a C1 than a K1. This was my first evening with 100% stats on rolls! (Rolling a K1 with canoe paddle before) Loved it! After many rolls i understand why you need hip pads, so I will try to make some before the snow melts.

The only thing that didn’t go perfectly was my gluing of the ankle blocs. I used Sikaflex 291 to glue a small piece of minicell on top of the minicell blocks I have already glued in. The Sikaflex had over a week to harden but was still totally soft. I discovered that in a break with black Sikaflex all over my ankles! Luckily Sikaflex 291 is a Polyurethane glue so the surface hardened in the water. Anybody has a clue to what happened with my gluing? I have used the glue for other stuff and the exact same tube has worked before. I cleaned the minicell with ethanol, could it be a chemical reaction happening?

This post ended up being a bit useless without pics but it was too dark for my camera to work. When I find time for it I will take some new pictures of the outfitting.

This project is now on hold until the snow melts and I get a chance to paddle it on moving water. Some more modifications to com then I think. In the mean time I am off to Spitsbergen!

Edit:

Barskekarsten · Post by **Barskekarsten** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:51 pm

Today I had my first go at the river!

I hope I will have a steep learning curve because this was hard, but a lot of fun! As said before I have never paddled something shorter than 15 feet flat-water canoe, so leaning and tilting is all new to me. I tipped five times but only swam twice. I think three rolls, in cold water, the first trip is good enough!

I was the only one bringing a camera = only pictures of kayakers and my boat.

This is how my outfitting looks right now. I needed to add som soft open cell foam to make my legs last more than five minutes.

fez · Post by **fez** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:12 pm

congrats!

I would suggest to make the backrest vertical and higher for a tighter fit.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:01 pm

I'd second having a higher backrest, mine was actually above the cockpit rim and I'd also put something in to restrain your knees from lifting up,angled foam attached to the sidewalls is usually enough; It'll make a massive difference to rolling the boat.

My Jefe conversion is now being canabalised to outfit a Jefe Grande for a mate of mine who broke his Nomad; I'm hoping to give it yet another chance at life with the outfitting from that nomad, but it may be irredemable this time.

Anyway photos:

Backrest from the front.

Cockpit from the top.

Bulkhead from the back.

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:44 pm

I would not go any higher with the saddle, and one idea that I think works best for hip pads is to have them integrated into the ankle pad, and all the way up the side of the boat, so that you have contact from the bottom of the ankle all the way up the hip/side of thigh. In my personal opinion, that makes the biggest difference in control. I would also move forward just a bit. I like to paddle pretty neutral, so that I can throw my weight back or forward and lift or sink the bow. if you went back much from there, you'd lose a huge amount or stability...
have fun