Here is a question for the mature boater

canoemid · Post by **canoemid** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:24 am

I like all the ideas listed here. Ok, so I only paddle small stuff in an open boat, but I'm somewhat "mature", so here's an extra strategy I'm using. I used to paddle bigger, more stable boats back in the late 80's (Whitesell, Mohawk Scamp and Rogue) and could sit on the back of a Perception saddle in calmer water on pool/drop rivers. The stability of these boats gave me the opportunity sit and stretch my legs out in front of me or at times "sit up" higher in a kneeling position (i.e. kneel higher) or lean forward to stretch my legs out behind me occssionally. These movements and different positions took pressure off my knees and ankles and eliminated cramps.

When I started paddling a Zephyr, I realized none of these ideas would work very well for me, so I worked on the outfitting and hopped out to stretch and rest the knees as suggested above. Of course, I did see ncdavid stand up in a Zephyr once. Not for me at my age or skill level.

In the Zephyr I occassionally got cramps in one of my hamstrings, a foot might go to sleep and my knees would hurt some. I asked a physical therapist about it and he suggested I stretch my legs before paddling. The pre-boating stretches worked, but hopping out to stretch held up my kayaking buddies - maybe not a bad thing. So, for me, I sold the Z and bought a boat I could still enjoy, but with more primary stability so I could stretch in the boat and get pressure off the knees and ankles when needed the way I used to do in the older boats. Never paddled an Option, but Wendy says the L'Edge is stable enough to sit differently on occassion; so from what I'm reading the Option may offer a similar situation.

So, I think if you pull from all the posts here, you'll find a comfort level to help your knees and ankles last longer. In 10 years I want to have good knees. As I "mature", I'm finding my limitations and learning to have fun within them.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:44 am

I used to take Aleve twice a day, but I NEVER found that it affected the pain or discomfort in my knees. That's partly because knee pain and ankle pain are usually due to ischemia, reduced circulation. NSAIDs have only a very minor effect on circulation.

And then I read the research results showing that Aleve, ibuprofen, ALL NSAIDs interfere with the healing process in tissues that ARE damaged. One carefully done study showed that in young men recovering from rotator cuff injury, those taking an NSAID shoed delayed healing compared to those taking a placebo. The pain relief mechanism of ibuprofen and all NSAIDs is inseparable from interference with healing.

I still take Aleve in modest and temporary doses if I hurt too much to move after exercise. But I no longer treat it like a vitamin.

Kneeling and putting the ankles in weird positions may increase risk of clotting in us older folks. But while the newer NSAIDs somewhat reduce the risk of clotting (Aleve better than ibuprofen), ASPIRIN is very much superior to all the newer NSAIDs for preventing clotting. And it takes no more than a single aspirin at bedtime, or a baby aspirin for young folks, to cut the risk of thrombosis due to platelet clumping.

Time to re-examine the practice of taking NSAIDs like candy.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:52 am

Ditto on ==> taller saddle, widen knees, getting out occasionally, and better knee cushioning.

I prefer to use Yakama footbraces, as they can be adjusted differently throughout the day. At times allowing hardly any pressure, and then when needed can be really cranked tight. They can also be moved way back, to allow my feet to go flat at times.

Being able to seat up on back of saddle has helped the most, like above poster. I add foam to the back of my saddle sometimes, and have learned to sit up on the rear thwart. So that I don't have to get out as often.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:05 am

I don't think anyone has metioned a wider saddle. I went to 10" wide in my C-1's & was amazed at the difference.

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:12 am

I think I widened his saddle... lots of whiskey flowing at Alexpolooza but I think I remember doing that.

oc1paddlr · Post by **oc1paddlr** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:26 am

i too like the toes pointed to the stern under the footpegs. a bc powder at the put in is my choice and stop for a walk often. go as low as you can go with the ped/saddle ps i think if you do it right, it should hurt alittle..... works for me

boatnc · Post by **boatnc** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:47 am

saddle height, the toe trick is also a good one. I thought awhile ago to buy a pair of knee savers, the ones baseball catchers wear, but haven't tried it out yet.

canoemid · Post by **canoemid** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:07 am

I sometimes use this knee pad in addition to glued in pads. Excellent cushion.

http://www.shopping.com/Seirus-Innovati ... -Knee/info

Pierre LaPaddelle · Post by **Pierre LaPaddelle** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:42 am

ezwater wrote:Time to re-examine the practice of taking NSAIDs like candy.

Does "NSAIDs" include Crown Royal?

tnaaaogc1 · Post by **tnaaaogc1** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:55 am

There is no substitute for proper outfitting. I use ankle blocks in my C-1. Without them, I couldn't manage at all. They don't have to be very high....maybe 3/4 inch or so off the hull. The way I got used to staying in my first C-1 was to sit in it and watch TV in my living room for as long as I could stand it. I did this several nights in a row, and before long, my feet and ankles had gotten stretched out, and they stayed that way. At the height of my C-1 "career", I could stay in my boat literally for hours at a time without too much discomfort. I also found that cutting the back of the knees of my wetsuit was a great thing.

eddyhops · Post by **eddyhops** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:56 am

Pierre LaPaddelle wrote:
ezwater wrote:Time to re-examine the practice of taking NSAIDs like candy.
Does "NSAIDs" include Crown Royal?

I'd love to answer that but I'm not mature enough

ESP · Post by **ESP** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:58 am

Thanks for the input everyone. The areas that get sore are the patellar tendons between the patella and the tibia. They are designed to handle tensile forces and not the compression of the body on the knee. I am trying to get the correct combination for my anatomy to avoid the compression and the resulting discomfort. I am unable to obtain photos because I am on the road flying. I have a blackfly and an option with bulkheads, yakima foot braces, and ankle blocks. I also have a mad river outrage and a bell outraged with straps. The knee pads in all of the boats are at least 3/4".

Post by **sbroam** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:11 am

I. find neoprene foam a better knee cushion than minicell

fez · Post by **fez** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:17 am

I outfitted my Quake and Taureau like my C1s - angle blocks, kneestraps, no foot braces. Works great. Very confortable. The downside is that you don`t hop in and out as easy as in a "classic" OC setup.

ESP · Post by **ESP** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:14 am

Did some stretching today before boating. I was able to last about an hour at a time without too much discomfort. We were on the river for about four hours. I am going to try to get some gel pads next.