An Eventful Upper Millers Run

[eddyhops]

My new painter-

[Wiggins]

You know you don't have to line the entire Grand Canyon, it is ok to run at least part of it.

Kyle

[TommyC1]

Read through this thread. Lots of good advise

http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... rf&start=0

Thanks Smurf.
I missed that before. Lots to think about before going to the rescue vest.


My Slasher came with a cam cleat mounted right behind and left of the cockpit. I never used it as I was swimming regularly out of that boat.

On another board someone suggested mounting something like that on my Cascade. I won't use a stern painter on any boat so the cleat could only be used with boat that have painters. In theory and my limited experience a vertical tug will free a line from a cam cleat quick and easy.
Like this without the strap.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/cl ... /index.htm

Anybody got any experience good or bad with cam cleats?

[sbroam]

Never used a cam cleat, but I did use *jam* cleats - had one on an old Gyramax and on a Viper 12 :

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=25000F

The horizontal format one on the deck of the C-1 and the vertical one was facing down on the inwale behind my hip in the OC-1. Never did use it with the C-1 but did tow a number of boats with my painter + cleat in the Viper and it worked OK. Hadn't thought about that in a long time... I was definitely more comfortable doing that than using a belt - I had a combo throw rope/tow rig once, but the cam buckle popped loose and it went one way as I went another...

[clarion]

With the cleats, where did you put them in relation to the stern? When I tried towing form the stern I didn't like it because I couldn't turn my boat. Maybe you've got your cleats on a thwart just behind your butt?

[Shep]

Someone had put cheap poly line on several of the boats we used last summer. When we tried to tow the canoe using the poly painter it slipped out of the cam cleat immediately. I think they are a great solution as long as your painter line is made of the right stuff.

We would also run the painter under the stern seat before we put it in the cleat if we had that extra second. Keeps the line from being pulled up accidentally while still allowing you to grab the rope and pull it out of the cleat super easy.

[sbroam]

With the Viper I had painters 8-10' long and the jam cleat under the inwale, just at my offside hip. It's been so long I can't recall how I was keeping the painter, but when I would tow the line went from the stern grab loop, through the towed boats loop, under my seat thwart and in the cleat. I'd could adjust how much swing the boat behind me had by how much rope I left paid out. To release was a quick tug down. I used it mainly to reel in the boats of those who swam out of the local play spot. I never felt endangered by it but, apparently, wasn't inspired to set it up in other boats.

[SlovenOC'er]

I used to have painters, there are benefits, but I stopped using them. Heavy hydraulics have a way of probing and testing your outfitting. Painters are often the first thing to unravel and pull out of the boat. When I was young and foolish, I once paddled into the bottom of a drop to retrieve a throw rope that was dangling in there. When I grabbed the rope, 2 coils quickly encircled my hand and started tightening. I was able to pull and shake loose before I ended up in really deep doo doo. Unless there is someone on the other end solidly anchored, I avoid ropes in water.

We had a near flush drowning here a couple of years ago when a a boater pulling a boat was unable to disengage his tether on his rescue vest. He ended up bailing and swimming a class V at a stout level that locals avoid. If you do use a tether, I would recommend practicing releasing it UNDER TENSION as that is the situation you might find yourself in with a filled up boat being pushed downstream.

[Berkshire Jack]

Hi Tommy,

In answer to your question about cam cleats, I have been using them since the late 1980's on almost all my C1's, except on those that are my play-boats. In fact, I just installed a cam cleat in the Pyranha Burn that I converted this winter. In view of this, I guess the answer to your question is that I have had a generally good experience with them.

I install them on the rear deck of my C1's, just behind the seat and off to the side that I paddle on - to make it easy to reach and grab the attached painter in a hurry. I keep a short painter on them (39 inches in the case of the Burn) so as to pose the least amount of accidental entanglement hazard as possible. I always carry a serrated knife.

When there is a boat floating free, I reach back, pull the painter free of the cam cleat, thread the free end of the rope thru the grab loop of the boat I want to tow, and then reattach the painter into the cam cleat. This is a quick process with the cam cleat. Then I can get back to stroking towards the nearest shore.

I learned early on in my boating career, not to bother towing boats in heavy currents in rapids or above bad rapids. But when I had to get rid of the towed boat quickly, as you suggested a quick vertical tug on the painter would always release the painter from the cam, even when the painter was under considerable tension.
Having the cleat close to ones body in an easily reachable spot is crucial in this respect.

Actually I find that the short painter attached to the cam cleat comes much more handy when rescueing the swimmer. In turbulent rapids, the swimmer often has trouble finding and holding onto a relatively small grab loop on ones boat. Not so the 3 foot painter, which runs down almost the entire back deck of the C1. But what makes it even more useful, is that the painter in the hand of the swimmer (once the painter is released from the cam cleat), makes it easier for the swimmer to actually swim with both hands rather than having one hand holding onto your rear grab loop. The hand holding the painter can make some swimming strokes - feeble though they may be. Thus the swimmer can more readily assist in the process of getting to shore. I actually had a swimmer do this on the Quaboag River two weekends ago.

Hope to meet up with you on a river at some point this Spring.

Jack

[Ben T]

painters are useful but also a big safety liability. I use 1 painter on my boat, in the bow. I use it primarily to tie my boat to shore when scouting on creeks, when the banks are to impractical to climb out onto. put i still wear a cowtail on my rescue vest

[old school]

A caution on bulldozing.

While bulldozing is usually best in light water I/II, dont recommend it in heavy water IV/V/IV.

This personal act of stupidity (on my part) may help some of you stay out of trouble.

So, I am paddling my C1O(Call it boat 1) in a good IV/V, with more to come, trying to Bulldoze another 15' OC1 with little floatation(it got blown/exploded out)(Call it Boat 2) while trying to pick up gear(his camera bag, paddle, etc).

By this time the boat I am trying to push(Boat 2) probably weighs in at maybe 800lbs or more.

It (Boat 2) goes up(about 3-4') and turns sideways(broadside) in front of me and my boat goes down and straight. So now I am about to be pushed under boat 2 with it coming down on and crushing me. I had to roll (off side) quick to escape/avoid.

This all happend really quick.

Lesson learned
While bulldozing is usually best in light water, dont recommend it in heavy water.
In heavy water, stay as far away as you can from anything else that has weight to it.

Too many unanticipated bad things can happen and quick.

As stated previous - its a boat, not worth you life.

[mahyongg]

I like painters for various reasons, most of them have been said above- one other is, if I'm in the water swimming, my grab loop would be about 40-50cm out of the water, thus depending on the conditions it is not easy to reach. Think L'edge handle on top of decks, even more so. With painters, I can turn my boat right side up and easily control it, while actively swimming with my paddle. Sometimes I loop the rope around the paddle shaft once, but only when there is plenty time, usually especially in tighter situations where I want to avoid stuff, this never happens. just tug painter out (stuffed under lacing, so I keep my airbags well inflated and cooled off!!) and swim is the way to go.

I would also recommend short painters.. there have been reports of situations where two, long painters tied together in the middle, now essentially creating a loop with the boat. Not very nice.. painters should thus overlap a handwith maximum, enough to still grab both with your arms, but not enough for them to tangle around themselves. And yeah, y'all anti-painter guys should check your lacing and all, it can probably snag your feet..

[yarnellboat]

I've never been tangled in a painter. I like 'em, and I like my bungee that secures them. Use 'em to rescue the boat after a bit of free-hand swimming.

What I have been snagged on though is little junk - I've had both my knife sheath and my whistle get stuck in my lacing.

Pat.