L edge Tweeking

SlovenOC'er · Post by **SlovenOC'er** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:43 pm

Decked L edge in garage. New boat euphoria passing. Time to do a little tweeking. Esquif appears to have attached the saddle by contact cementing to the hull bottom. No anchoring to the thwarts. To lessen the risk of hull cracks at back of saddle, I've come up with 2 ideas...

1. Round off corners of saddle where it contacts hull bottom so that support edge is less pronounced giving hull plastic more area to flex.

2. Placing another small sheet of plastic under rear of saddle so 2 layers of plastic absorb impact at critical area. Edges of plastic piece are not supported, so it flexes like underlying hull.

What do all you evening outfitters out there think? Any other better ideas? To Esquif, am I skating on thin ice with the warranty here?

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:54 pm

Sounds like you're on the right path to me... anything to reduce a stress-riser would be good... regardless the boat.

Of course I'd email Esquif directly, to really make sure that altering didn't void a warranty. It certainly hurt Martin's case last year, when he stiffened his saddle with a length of steel.

SlovenOC'er · Post by **SlovenOC'er** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:57 pm

Steel!!!?? Whats a little more weight on this boat matter?!

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:55 pm

I really like the idea of securing the saddle to the thwarts better and rounding off the edges of the saddle against the hull. My personal thought on a plastic/sheet/insert is that you will end up getting water and sand stuck between the plastic and constant abrasion there will lead to weakening of the hull plastic.

To distribute impact better, how about a thin 1/8 minicell glued to the hull directly, then you mount your saddle on top of that. It might help enough to be meaningful.

I think these are good thoughts though and a good thread. I hope others will chime in. Personally, i don't think these small outfitting tweaks should void your warranty, but it would be worth having clarification from the manufacturer.

SlovenOC'er · Post by **SlovenOC'er** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:21 pm

The mini cell idea is a good one. Some kayak manufacturers have been doing similar plastic in cockpit area for a while. I took a real hard impact under the seat of a Pyranha boat once. The inner layer of plastic cracked, but the outer hull had a crease an inch deep but no break. I think that it would have failed if there was no inner layer. When I removed all the outfitting from that boat, you could see abrasion wherever my weight caused the plastic to rub together. But is was much less abrasion than you typically see on the outside of a hull.

TNbound · Post by **TNbound** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:29 pm

markzak wrote: My personal thought on a plastic/sheet/insert is that you will end up getting water and sand stuck between the plastic and constant abrasion there will lead to weakening of the hull plastic.

Has this been a problem in kayaks? I know most kayaks have a hull stiffener that runs down the middle of the boat fore to aft. Seems to me something like that would do a canoe some good, especially one with as much flat area on the bottom as the L'edge or Spanish Fly.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:40 pm

TNbound wrote:
markzak wrote: My personal thought on a plastic/sheet/insert is that you will end up getting water and sand stuck between the plastic and constant abrasion there will lead to weakening of the hull plastic.
Has this been a problem in kayaks? I know most kayaks have a hull stiffener that runs down the middle of the boat fore to aft. Seems to me something like that would do a canoe some good, especially one with as much flat area on the bottom as the L'edge or Spanish Fly.

It was a problem in kayaks, but manufacurers have started either welding the stiffener down (Dagger) or attaching a thin layer of minicell to the hull for the stiffener to sit on (Liquid Logic, Pyranha).

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:48 pm

TheKrikkitWars wrote: It was a problem in kayaks, but manufacurers have started either welding the stiffener down (Dagger) or attaching a thin layer of minicell to the hull for the stiffener to sit on (Liquid Logic, Pyranha).

HUH? Thin foam between the kayak parts and hull is common.
But welding the stiffener down? Never saw such a thing. When did this start?

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:52 pm

Larry Horne wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote: It was a problem in kayaks, but manufacurers have started either welding the stiffener down (Dagger) or attaching a thin layer of minicell to the hull for the stiffener to sit on (Liquid Logic, Pyranha).
HUH? Thin foam between the kayak parts and hull is common.
But welding the stiffener down? Never saw such a thing. When did this start?

Both my Crazy 88's have/had their stiffeners welded down, as does my GF's Agent. The Creek outfitting in Mamba's and Nomad's is foam covered instead, as the seat and stiffener are one big unit...

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:47 am

oh yeah, playboats. I often forget they exist.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:04 am

Larry Horne wrote:oh yeah, playboats. I often forget they exist.

you should try them once... I've heard it's like eating fiber at your age Larry

j/kdn' lOl

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:14 am

Yep. I'm in the process of re-outfitting my wheelboy right now.

ice-breaker · Post by **ice-breaker** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:37 pm

SlovenOC'er wrote:...

1. Round off corners of saddle where it contacts hull bottom so that support edge is less pronounced giving hull plastic more area to flex.

2. Placing another small sheet of plastic under rear of saddle so 2 layers of plastic absorb impact at critical area. Edges of plastic piece are not supported, so it flexes like underlying hull.

Not sure that rounding off the corners of the saddle would be much benefit. Foam is generally pretty soft anyway and the edges of the saddle will give if they need to. Also rounding off the edges will reduce the contact area between the saddle and the hull, which will increase the pressure on the hull. I think that your second suggestion is a much better one. By placing a sheet of plastic under the saddle, you are effectively increasing the stiffness and strength of the bottom of your boat, and in a very small way you are also distributing the weight from your saddle over a slightly larger area (thus decreasing the contact stress).

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:31 pm

maybe an thin sheet of minicell along the hull, then a large piece of plastic over that, then your saddle on top of that! That sounds interesting....

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:42 pm

or...pour in a 1 inch layer of 15,000 psi non shrink grout!
..what's a few more pounds?

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L edge Tweeking

L edge Tweeking

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