Modifying boats into otherboats.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Tue May 10, 2011 12:55 pm

I just spent 99p (about 60₵) on a mould for a "Panther" slalom K1, with the intention of creating something wider, cruisier and generally not a kayak out of the original design (and possibly replacing the 20 furry glass boats my uni canoe club has in reserve for competitions).

I've heard snippets of people's stories of doing this before; but does are there threads detailing this more comprihencively, or does anyone have the time to explain to me what I'm going to have to do (and think about) in order to make this a success.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:45 pm

I don't know if this will help you much but...
http://vimeo.com/16696926

This might also provide you with some inspiration... start reading at page 59
http://www.daveyhearn.com/Coaching/Tech ... 96-359.pdf

The Max II was made by widening a Sanna kayak. Says Hearn
ironically, "Kent Ford was really interested in this and talked me
into helping. However, he was away at college, so I ended up
taking over!"

Bob P · Post by **Bob P** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:12 pm

An "interesting" project...

Generally, C1s are more "surface hull" (as opposed to displacement hull) than K1s, so the basic shape might need quite a bit of tweeking. The flatish hull area tends to more behind the paddler too. I suspect that a kayak plug is going to need quite a few significant modifications. Having done a couple of designs that were based on existing C1s myself, I predict it's going to be a lot of work. (But that's what your students are for

)

I would model the kayak first, then "stretch" the sections to your proposed C1 design.

Have fun!

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:33 pm

what's your goal...

make a boat to modify, and then make a new mold
or alter the mold to make a boat from
or something else

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:04 pm

philcanoe wrote:what's your goal...

make a boat to modify, and then make a new mold

or alter the mold to make a boat from

or something else

Make a boat to modify and then...

Decide whether it's possible to modify the mould or if a new mould using the boat as a plug is required.

I predict that I'll end up modifying the deck more than the hull.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:20 pm

Unfortunately it looks like i won't be able to pick the mould up; which is a dam shame. Oh well.

Sorcrow · Post by **Sorcrow** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:31 am

From John Sweet- The original Max C-1 was designed by quartering a kayak and spreading it to create the necessary 70 cm width. In the process, the characteristic sudden curve in the hull profile was introduced while piecing it back together. This hull shape proved to be beneficial for pivot turns, the precursor of stern squirts. The sport of squirt boating got its origin from a boat-design accident! Davey Hearn should be writing about this. I may not have it precisely right. The kayak used was, I believe, a Prijon Sanna [not Sauna].

http://www.cboats.net/c_db/list.php?typ ... e=Max%20II

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Wed May 11, 2011 11:27 am

Still - there's no reason you can't modify (improve) any hull. I've done this several times, just be careful to retain lateral symmetry... else a really good idea may be for naught. Reworking a existing mold can be a real bitch.

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Having purchased a boat, cut it up, retaped it, modified it, retaped it, etc... etc... and having the final boat have none of any of the original hull or deck shape I would start from scratch. You'll need a clearer idea of what you initially want to try, but it is easier IMhO.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:45 pm

so true

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:50 pm

I've secured an old glass slalom c1... its pretty decrepit and needs to be de-seamed and at least one new layer of diolen and resin to the inside to be paddleable; but, I'd have to split it anyway as I'm planning to cut some volume and length out of it too as it's a boat from the era preceeding sinkable sterns.

This should be several orders of magnitude easier than modifying a kayak; and will still probably go horribly wrong.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Thu May 19, 2011 10:28 pm

Install a drain plug, and you can make the stern sink as much as you want.

I guess the market over there for used c-1s must be slow. In the states, one can get a recent model for about half what it cost new, or just a little older model for $500. But you have to watch and wait.

Another c-1 cruiser that started as a kayak is the Phoenix "Seewun", usually called the Slipper. I used one for years, and still have it. I understand that Kent Ford also had a hand in bloating the Phoenix to make a race boat. But while it's fast in a straight line, it is too tubular and has too little rocker to turn decently. And while the rear deck is flat, the stern volume is too great to do pivot turns.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:19 pm

ezwater wrote:Install a drain plug, and you can make the stern sink as much as you want.

I guess the market over there for used c-1s must be slow. In the states, one can get a recent model for about half what it cost new, or just a little older model for $500. But you have to watch and wait.

Very funny!

There's an ok market for second hand slalom boats of all kinds (hades you can get a 3.7m boat for £50 if you're willing to go to enough slaloms to see them advertised); but, I want to learn about making and modifying boats and with that in mind turning down a free slalom c1 seems churlish at best.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Thu May 26, 2011 4:46 pm

Got the boat today; need to clean it down and duct tape the cockpit rim for a test paddle in the next couple of days.

Looks in better shape than I thought though... does anyone have info/anacdotes on how people originally cut down slalom boats into squirtboats?

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu May 26, 2011 5:09 pm

man.. i don't know HOW IN THE WORLD they could do it without first researching it on the internet.
I guess they just got a case of beer, turned on the garage stereo, rolled up their sleeves and went after it. probably had to use their imagination and a little bit of common sense too.. that must have been horrible

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Modifying boats into otherboats.

Modifying boats into otherboats.

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