Rather than expend more time & energy defending myself against character assassination; I have decided to remove both boats offered for sale.
I respect people's right to have & express their opinion. I do not have to agree with those opinions. At some point in time, defending your actions & opinions can turn into an excercise in futility. You risk becoming a character; aided by his loyal companinon Sancho Panza, "tilting against windmills".
"Life is short; grab a paddle"
BOB
Probe 12 II & Piranha (No longer offered for sale)
Moderators: kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC, adamin
Probe 12 II & Piranha (No longer offered for sale)
Last edited by Blackhawk on Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FYI everybody, I have not met Blackhawk (also goes by the handle thebob.com) in person, but I haven't enjoyed my limited dealings with him.
Last summer, he checked out photos of my XL-13 for sale, and then my fathers XL-13 , and seemed to be seeking a near-mint condition boat for <$600. I got the impression that he felt his time had been wasted by looking at boats that were less than near mint.
Just this past week, this individual bought this boat off of the Arkansas Canoe Club Message Board as part of a pair, ( http://forums.arkansascanoeclub.com/vie ... =2&t=19219 ) and has now turned around and put it up for sale for $250 more than he bought it for. Please know that if you do business with this individual, that he works like a business, and is not interested in passing along deals or helping people out. He appears to be interested only in profit. I do not believe this person is dishonest, just disingenuous.
Thanks for your time,
Paul Shepherd
"Shep"
Last summer, he checked out photos of my XL-13 for sale, and then my fathers XL-13 , and seemed to be seeking a near-mint condition boat for <$600. I got the impression that he felt his time had been wasted by looking at boats that were less than near mint.
Just this past week, this individual bought this boat off of the Arkansas Canoe Club Message Board as part of a pair, ( http://forums.arkansascanoeclub.com/vie ... =2&t=19219 ) and has now turned around and put it up for sale for $250 more than he bought it for. Please know that if you do business with this individual, that he works like a business, and is not interested in passing along deals or helping people out. He appears to be interested only in profit. I do not believe this person is dishonest, just disingenuous.
Thanks for your time,
Paul Shepherd
"Shep"
It is called capitalism- one person has a product another wants. If both people agree to a fair price, the deal is struck. If Blackhawk is willing to invest his capital on a risk that he can sell the boats for more than he paid, more power to him. I understand that River Karma might run counter to this, but business is business. If the boat is in 'new' condition and might cost a few hundred bucks more from a dealer, then the buyer in this case is getting a "deal".
Disclaimer- I do not know any of the parties involved and do not stand to benefit from any sales. However, the implication that Blackhawk is disingenuous sort of struck a nerve with me when all it appears that he is doing is being a businessman.
Disclaimer- I do not know any of the parties involved and do not stand to benefit from any sales. However, the implication that Blackhawk is disingenuous sort of struck a nerve with me when all it appears that he is doing is being a businessman.
Brendan
It is called capitalism- one person has a product another wants. If both people agree to a fair price, the deal is struck. If Blackhawk is willing to invest his capital on a risk that he can sell the boats for more than he paid, more power to him. I understand that River Karma might run counter to this, but business is business. If the boat is in 'new' condition and might cost a few hundred bucks more from a dealer, then the buyer in this case is getting a "deal".
Disclaimer- I do not know any of the parties involved and do not stand to benefit from any sales. However, the implication that Blackhawk is disingenuous sort of struck a nerve with me when all it appears that he is doing is being a businessman.
Disclaimer- I do not know any of the parties involved and do not stand to benefit from any sales. However, the implication that Blackhawk is disingenuous sort of struck a nerve with me when all it appears that he is doing is being a businessman.
Brendan
Boat buying................
Yes, I have checked out several XL-13 Mohawk, offered on several different websites.
No, I did not buy one of the those I checked out.
Instead, I kept looking for an XL13 in the condition I wanted, at a price I wanted to pay.
When I could not find that boat; I gave up that search.
I started seeking a Mohawk Probe 12 instead.
A Probe 12 II & a Probe 12 were offered in Arkansas at a very good price. I did not set the price. I bought them both; they were offered for less if you bought both. I plan to keep & paddle the Probe 12; I now plan to sell the Probe 12 II. Any profit I make will offset my costs & some of the cost of the "keeper".
If you subtract the cost of my fuel for a 400 mile round trip, a meal for myself, and knew that it took me the better part of 10 hours of driving to pick up the canoes; you might have a differnet view point of my total costs? Or maybe not.
A new Mohawk Probe 12 II cost about $1,020.00.
Wth basic factory outfitting, the cost for that canoe is about $1,350.00.
I'm asking $850.00 for a fully outfitted boat in very nice condition.
That's about $500.00 "savings" over new costs.
It will cost you a couple of hundred dollars more; if you have to have it shipped to you.
Nobody reimburses me for my fuel cost to pick up the canoe.
Nobody reimburses me for a meal on the road during a 10 hours day.
My 10 hour day on the road is a write off.
I worked for the money to pay the initial cost of the canoe.
The seller of the canoes & I agreed on the price.
A buyer can save themselves nearly $500.00 dollars off the cost of a newProbe 12 II. Nothing wrong with that is there? Many people accept 60% of new cost as a price for resell. 60% of $1,350.00 is $810.00. I missed that by 40 bucks; my fuel costs were 70 bucks.
Does anyone know if I've sold some canoes for what I paid for them, or less? I have.
I'd be happy to listen to complaints from people who know me, sold me a canoe, bought a canoe for me, or paddle with me on a regular basis.
Sorry, but I ain't the bad guy..............
Unless everyone who buys anything & sells it for more than they paid for it is a bad guy, or buys anything for less than someone else thinks it's worth.
BOB
No, I did not buy one of the those I checked out.
Instead, I kept looking for an XL13 in the condition I wanted, at a price I wanted to pay.
When I could not find that boat; I gave up that search.
I started seeking a Mohawk Probe 12 instead.
A Probe 12 II & a Probe 12 were offered in Arkansas at a very good price. I did not set the price. I bought them both; they were offered for less if you bought both. I plan to keep & paddle the Probe 12; I now plan to sell the Probe 12 II. Any profit I make will offset my costs & some of the cost of the "keeper".
If you subtract the cost of my fuel for a 400 mile round trip, a meal for myself, and knew that it took me the better part of 10 hours of driving to pick up the canoes; you might have a differnet view point of my total costs? Or maybe not.
A new Mohawk Probe 12 II cost about $1,020.00.
Wth basic factory outfitting, the cost for that canoe is about $1,350.00.
I'm asking $850.00 for a fully outfitted boat in very nice condition.
That's about $500.00 "savings" over new costs.
It will cost you a couple of hundred dollars more; if you have to have it shipped to you.
Nobody reimburses me for my fuel cost to pick up the canoe.
Nobody reimburses me for a meal on the road during a 10 hours day.
My 10 hour day on the road is a write off.
I worked for the money to pay the initial cost of the canoe.
The seller of the canoes & I agreed on the price.
A buyer can save themselves nearly $500.00 dollars off the cost of a newProbe 12 II. Nothing wrong with that is there? Many people accept 60% of new cost as a price for resell. 60% of $1,350.00 is $810.00. I missed that by 40 bucks; my fuel costs were 70 bucks.
Does anyone know if I've sold some canoes for what I paid for them, or less? I have.
I'd be happy to listen to complaints from people who know me, sold me a canoe, bought a canoe for me, or paddle with me on a regular basis.
Sorry, but I ain't the bad guy..............
Unless everyone who buys anything & sells it for more than they paid for it is a bad guy, or buys anything for less than someone else thinks it's worth.
BOB
I stand by what I said. It feels to me as though you bought a boat that you didn't need so that you could sell it for more. I know other people who need a boat, and don't have the money to pay $200 more than they would have last week. It seems like a shame.
Shep
edited to add:
Shep
edited to add:
Yup Brendan, I couldn't agree more. With the recent kerfuffle leading to people's profiles having tags showing they represent this or that, we generally have a pretty good idea of who is in "the business". I like that, and I think others do to.Brendan wrote:it appears that he is doing is being a businessman.
Businessman...........
I represent no business.
A paddler; who on occasion, buys & sells a canoe.
Retired, and live on a fixed income.
I respect everyone's right to their own opinion.
That does not mean that I change mine to suit others.
Based on the number of people I have helped on the river & other ways; I am not much concerned about bad karma.
Owning this or that boat is NOT a real need. It may be perceived as a need by some, but there is a difference between real & perceived needs. My first canoe was a 100 dollar, outfitter beater. I made do with it until I could afford better. No mystery; work, save your money, and buy whatever you can afford, or whatever you want if you have enough saved.
BOB
A paddler; who on occasion, buys & sells a canoe.
Retired, and live on a fixed income.
I respect everyone's right to their own opinion.
That does not mean that I change mine to suit others.
Based on the number of people I have helped on the river & other ways; I am not much concerned about bad karma.
Owning this or that boat is NOT a real need. It may be perceived as a need by some, but there is a difference between real & perceived needs. My first canoe was a 100 dollar, outfitter beater. I made do with it until I could afford better. No mystery; work, save your money, and buy whatever you can afford, or whatever you want if you have enough saved.
BOB
-
sbroam
- CBoats.net Staff
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- Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:12 am
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- Contact:
You mean you don't have to lose money on boats?! 
I work in a cubicle for a living and paddle for fun, I like to keep that competitive dollar chasing away from my hobby but that's just me. I'm like as not to trade for other gear or beer because usually by they time I sell a boat it's 15 years out of fashion or worn paper thin. If you can work a mutually beneficial trade, more power to you - this *is* America...
I work in a cubicle for a living and paddle for fun, I like to keep that competitive dollar chasing away from my hobby but that's just me. I'm like as not to trade for other gear or beer because usually by they time I sell a boat it's 15 years out of fashion or worn paper thin. If you can work a mutually beneficial trade, more power to you - this *is* America...C-Boats Moderator
http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam/CanoeOutfitting
http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam/CanoeOutfitting
what a shame
Ive bought a coupla canoes from blackhawk , he profited from them ..big deal..but i still feel like i got a great price on some very unused canoes..I have had the honer to paddle with this man on several occasions and hope to on several more ... hes a good man that has a canoe hobby ...i feel lucky to call him my friend...