critique my roll?

[Craig Smerda]

I've spent entire afternoons cranking out rolls in a CUFly (wide clumsy boat to roll in the first place) while playing at one spot and never hurt my shoulder once. Maybe I'm some sort of phreak.

One thing I might add is getting your torso and head turned the right way is crucial.... look at the bottom of the river/lake/pool until you're up.

[FullGnarlzOC]

Not the type of situations I'm talking about...

When your headed down river fast - upsidedown, rocks all around you(the type of white-water the majority of us paddle)...and you stick that elbow out there to get your powerface high brace going...then the paddle flip and low brace up... well when that elbow is out there before you flip the blade - you are just rolling the dice more so than is needed.

You dont need to do the paddle flip. I think its an outdated roll technique in my opinion.... we ain't just paddling class III anymore - where you can easily set up and bust a roll out as if it were in a pool.

[FullGnarlzOC]

More so - for set up... if the back face of your blade is facing the river bottom..and its not yet on top of the water, if you paddle with a scoop - its going to be arched toward the surface....so any kind of slicing motion will cause the paddle to rise....it wants to rise... whereas if its powerface down and you try to slice to surface...you are getting the opposite effect.

[Craig Smerda]

watch this guy once... http://vimeo.com/18606231" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you really think there's that much difference?

[FullGnarlzOC]

No, theres really not that much of a difference - so why not just simplify? Make it so there is one less step that you can get screwed up with.

Habits are hard to break. That's the point. Why do so many ppl get taught to flip the blade? Because the guy teaching you probably does it... doesn't mean its THE WAY. I just don't see a benefit to it. Maybe our residence roll master fur trapper can chime in with his thoughts... a man w/ much experience of being upside down at high velocity.

[Craig Smerda]

my theory is... let's jus' get people rolling instead of swiming.

I'm guessing you feel the same way...

Here's Phil's videos...
http://vimeo.com/29642417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://vimeo.com/29704063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://vimeo.com/30215181" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://vimeo.com/30884694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://vimeo.com/35810817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://vimeo.com/36741447" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




more importantly... FOOTPEGS!!!

[ian123]

It's all muscle memory. Once you ve done it enough times you won't get messed up flipping your paddle anymore than you will taking a forward stroke. Looking at Tom's roll, it does seem simple but the T-grip hand looks awkward and unnatural in that position. Whatever.

[tokebelokee]

Hello Dave-

You are certainly on your way to a good roll! I recommend that "reach" wider, away from the boat, with your torso and paddle to get the most mechanical advantage out of your paddle sweep and thigh lift (or hip snap, as some call it; I think "thigh lift" better describes the motion for a kneeling posture). Anyway, note that your torso and chest are never totally rotated to be flat with the water's surface. This keeps you from being able to really "look" at the bottom, and also prevents you from extending your paddle the maximum distance and supporting your body with it while you use your thigh to lift the strong side gunwale. Reach wide, with chest, shoulders, and face rotated into the same plane as the water surface, and you'll get a lot more roll with a lot less effort. I think the toughest part of the process may be getting comfortable with actually moving your mouth/nose away from the water surface; it's important to breath, but the face has to be in the water for good rolling.

I made this video to try to illustrate the point. It overlaps with some other ones, but I hope it might be a decent reference. The last clips are only a practice exercise-I know it says so in the video description, but please don't think I endorse hanging around with your face in the water prior to rolling in a "live action" situation.

http://vimeo.com/37899962" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TheKrikkitWars]

Gnarlz - you're Waaaaaaaaaay overthinking this... a roll is a roll is a roll is a roll; and it's not like you and Craig share the same corporeal form so what works comfortably for him, may well suck for you...

[TNbound]

[...] a roll is a roll is a roll is a roll [...]

So long as it gets you upright quickly, reliably, and safely, yep. To each their own.


To the OP: One thing you will want to strive for is a quick, fluid roll. Minimizing the time spent upside down minimizes pain from the river bottom. Trust me on that one.

[PatrickOC1]

Bumping this post up after after a pool session today with a fellow cboats user who was very close to a roll on his first day attempting it. If it werent for my poor explaining he just might have had it.....

And thanks for letting my try the shaco out thats the face I made when when I felt the speed of that hull first hand well done Kaz

[canoewhitewater]

Patick, your explination was great! It takes me a little time to get the technique down. Thanks for your help. I will practice practice practice.

[dsmoake]

The boat makes a huge difference. It took me for ever to roll the maxim and it was never very accurate or reliable. I was never able to land a combat roll in it. I got in a viper 11 with really old outfitting and inadequate air bags and it rolled with very little effort. I now have an Option and I find it easier to roll. My first time on the river with it I had 4 combat rolls, twice my feet weren't even on the pegs and I could still get up. Thanks for everyones advice!
Dave

[mr ray]

Dave,

While there is already a lot of great advice given here, I really think your main problem, though mentioned, hasn't been stressed enough. It will surely help to strengthen (and extend / exaggerate the range of motion of) your hip snap. It will also help to get your body lined up as was mentioned. And, in my opinion, every boat has a slightly different sweet spot as far as relative timing of hipsnap and bringing the rest up. Some you can get away with doing almost simultaneously, some you have to separate the two more.

But the big problem here is your head is not down. Here is the best and simplest method I have ever been told:

At the point where you have snapped your hips and are about to bring your torso up, your forehead should be GLUED to the paddle shaft. Keep it there throughout the entire remainder of the roll, until your forehead / paddleshaft combo has slid across the airbags and is rested on the opposite gunnel.

You cannot bring your head up prematurely if you do this right. This tip really took my roll to the next level.

hades, I may be wrong. There are plenty of much more experienced / accomplished boaters who have already posted. Can't hurt to try though. Just try it and report back.

-Ray

[dsmoake]

Here is my latest video.

https://vimeo.com/58329050" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After reading through all the advice on this topic, I can now roll with the front or back of my blade, but I prefer the back.

My roll still needs some work, I think it could be more fluid. Any other advice would be appreciated.
Dave