Can someone school me on WW canoes please

[GosuPaintballer]

I've been searching and reading all over the internet for days now about canoes. I have been able to find some info, but not a ton. A lot of it i've read has just confused me more and more. How much rocker do you want in a WW canoe? What kind of hull shape do you want? etc. etc. Myself, my wife and several friends have all just bought WW kayaks and started WW kayaking. My son (9 years old) has tried the kayak, but freaked out as soon as he was upside down in it and scared him away quickly. My delima i'm in and thinking is either 1. try him in a ducky and see how that goes, which we're headed to the Nantahala next weekend and gonna rent one to see how he likes it. 2. Then if the ducky does not go over for him i was thinking about a tandem WW canoe. This way my wife and I could swap back and forth with him, one of us paddle with him in the canoe while the other kayaks, and then vice versa. We took him on his first WW rafting trip last summer and he did not paddle, but just sat in the front of the raft and LOVED IT! Several guys on boatertalk.com have said learning to paddle WW in a canoe is a steep learning curve and pretty hard. What do you guys think? Also if someone could explain to me what to look for in a tandem WW canoe if i do decide to buy one that would be great! Reviews and stuff i've read so far looks like The Mohawk XL 15 and the Caption by Mad River would both be good choices? Also, what holds up better for WW canoeing, polyethylene plastic or the royalex?

[Sir Adam]

Get a ducky. Seriously. When introducing folks to whitewater they are great, and when they get more comfortable / confident you can figure out what works best for them - a canoe (OC1 (open) or C1 (decked)) or a kayak. Tandem ducks are a lot of fun, too. My favorites are the NRS Bandit series - they are nice and light... and that makes a big difference over time.

There are a lot of good tandem canoes out there - old school, new school, and in between. Asking what one is best is like asking what car is best - it all depends on who you are, what you like, how you "drive", and of course where you're going to use it! I would not recommend taking your son down in a canoe until you are very comfortable with canoeing yourself. it's really not that hard, I personally find it much easier than kayaking (two blades confuse me, my legs fall asleep and my back gets sore in a kayak...every now and then I hop in one when someone who kayaks tries a my C1... and it reminds me each time why I paddle what I do:))

There are lots of folks who canoe - I'd recommend finding someone local and see if you can try out some boats and see how you like them, then go from there.

In the end though it's all about getting out there on the water and having fun - it's great to hear you are out there with the whole family!

[Bob Wiggins]

get him a canoe. trust me- i had one when i was 7. he'll love it. the learning curve really isnt that steep when youre young. PE holds up better, but boy is it heavy. if you go PE, the only boats he'll be able to horse around are an ion or a taureau. if you go royalex, look at the mohawk probe 11, or something similar. i cant make it this weekend, but pm me next time you go to the nantahala and i can bring an ion and a probe, as well as a maxim after april 21 or so, for him to try.

[arhdc]

I'm going to go with Sir Adam here. Get a ducky. They are actually quite fun and very stable, especially with kids and there is no getting trapped in one.

I am a newbie for WW OC and my wife started kayaking at the same time. Based on my observations watching her learn compared to myself, I think that the initial learning curve for single blade is steeper that it is for K1 (solo kayak) just because of the the asymmetry of things. Personally I have never been able to sit in a kayak for long and much prefer knealing but that is just me. I'm not saying don't come over from the dark side (kayak - please remember that my wife is a kayaker) just be aware that it is a somewhat harder discipline to learn.

If you still want to tandem with your 9 year old I would consider the water that you are wanting to paddle. I have a classic canoe (Prospector 15') that I have set up to run with my 4 year old in. We can camp out of it or put mom in the front (when we can her her out of her kayak). This is fine for class I/II and flatwater. If you are wanting to run more aggressive/technical water then I would recommend that you learn to OC1 (open canoe solo) first and really learn your skills before adding a 9 year old to the mix.

[Bob Wiggins]

Why don't you let the kid decide? At that age we still have an excellent grasp of what is over our heads. As I said, if you strt young, the learning curve isn't bad at all. A canoe can be outfitted so you won't get trapped, but it can be tightenee up if he starts feeling better. Definitely learn how to canoe before takin him tandem on any whitewater.

[pblanc]

I took my daughter out on rivers like the Hiwassee and the Nantahala in a tandem whitewater canoe when she was about your son's age and had a great time. But I had a significant amount of experience paddling a solo canoe in whitewater before I did that.

If you are relatively new to whitewater, and new to canoeing, trying to paddle a tandem whitewater canoe with a youngster who may not be able to help you effectively might be biting off a bit too much.

If you do eventually choose to go with a canoe, I would select one that is outfitted in such a way that the paddling stations are relatively close together in the so-called Gemini position. You would like to be able to get your paddle blade in front of the boat's pivot point from the stern paddling position so that you can execute bow turning strokes if necessary. I used a Dagger Caper canoe (similar in dimensions to the Caption but with a bit less rocker) and it worked well. A Mohawk Probe 14 or XL 14, Mad River Legend 15, or Esquif Vertige X would also be worth considering if you came across one of them at a good price.

Polyethylene tandem canoes are quite heavy and the selection is limited. Some of the Old Town 3-layer polyethylene boats can be set up for whitewater, although none of them would really be described as whitewater boats. You are probably looking at Royalex.

[Shep]

I think people are confused about what it means to have a steep learning curve. I think canoeing has a much shallower, much longer learning curve than kayaking. The vibe around whitewater canoeing doesn't have the MUST LEARN TO ROLL vibe that kayaking has. I know multiple kayakers who have this huge mental hang up about whether they can roll or not, and that stress becomes self defeating. It's a big first step, but then people seem to get comfortable in class 3-4 almost as soon as they have their roll. Canoeing tends to follow a very different progression. People seem to work their way through class 2-3 much more slowly, and a good number don't have a roll the first time they run class 4.

My 2 cents...
Shep

P.s. find an ion for him to try out!

[Bob Wiggins]

P.s. find an ion for him to try out!

As I said, he's welcome to try mine out anytime- just let me know.

[Riverken]

Once when I was at MKC I saw these kid-sized OC-1 boats. But I can't remember what they were called. Splash, maybe?

[craig]

Splash , by composite creations in Canada made just for kids. U can find used ones if you are patient