How much rocker should a WW canoe have for class 2 - easy 4s

[GosuPaintballer]

I'm still researching and reading up as much as possible about WW canoes. I have run into a question that i haven't been able to find reasoning for yet. I understand what rocker is on canoes. What i can't figure out is how much rocker do you need in a canoe that's gonna be used for rivers/creeks ranging from class 2's all the way up to easy / moderate class 4 whitewater? I've been looking more at tandem sized ww canoes 14-16 ft. canoes. Finding everything from 3" up to 6" worth of rocker on ww canoes. How much does rocker play in part when looking for a ww canoe? How hard/easy would it be to take say the Mohawk XL14 or XL15 (has 3" of rocker) down class 4's OR take the Probe 14 (has 6" of rocker) down class 2's with several stretches of flat water?

[Larry Horne]

What i can't figure out is how much rocker do you need in a canoe ?

how much horsepower do you need in a car?
how much square footage do you need in a house?

the answer is however much you want. you just have to pay in one way or another

[bkebs]

So i typed out a bunch of stuff and did not like the way it sounded so here is my simplified opinion.

The more rocker, the more play. If you want to or need to catch lots of eddies and make tight moves, get more rocker. You want to just run through, less rocker.

[craig]

Rocker allows the canoe to turn more easily and also ride drier over waves, but does so at the expense of tracking ability(how easily it keeps a straight line thru the water) So you can answer for yourself by figuring out what you want to do most with that canoe

[Sir Adam]

You could also look at length - and the answer is the same - it depends on what you want to do with the boat and what performance characteristics you are looking for.

Most WildWater race boats have very little to no rocker... but they are meant to go fast in a straight line. A slightly shorter slalom boat may have more rocker (to turn to go through the gates). To play more features in most rivers an even shorter boat is nice, both for maneuverability and being able to get in a wave or in a while (there is definitely such a thing as being too long for whitewater play)

[Shep]

There is also no single way to measure rocker, so two identical figures might be very different hulls. I don't put much stock in rocker numbers, I'd rather see photos of the profile, which of course can also be misleading.

[Craig Smerda]

the best suggestion I can give you is to tell people here which boat(s) you are looking at, who/where they might be used specifically and ask for feedback... it'll be a lot less painful and you'll probably learn a lot more about the boat(s) than looking at any listed manufacturers specifications... trust me.

[GosuPaintballer]

the best suggestion I can give you is to tell people here which boat(s) you are looking at, who/where they might be used specifically and ask for feedback... it'll be a lot less painful and you'll probably learn a lot more about the boat(s) than looking at any listed manufacturers specifications... trust me.

Not really sure cause been looking at a lot of different boats. What i want is a tandem canoe that can run class 2 and 3 and if i ever get good enough possibly 4's. I do not want the saddle set up, but instead want the standard two seats that you see in most canoes. Also, want to be able to paddle it solo if i need to since some of the time it will be my 9 year old son and myself going instead of myself and another adult. Been looking at the Mohawks XL 14 and 15, Mohawk Probe 14, and Wenonah Rogue.

[arhdc]

So you are wanting a single canoe to learn to run class II-IV whitewater solo, tandem and tandem with a child set up with classic canoe style tandem seating, correct?

The range of things that you are talking about should be distributed over two or more different canoes and the learning curve for what you are talking about is huge.

Perhaps we need to be talking about what you want to do with a boat most for starters and go from there.

[cheajack]

Caption

[Bob Wiggins]

Probe 14 with a triple saddle. No, it's not the traditional, bUt it is the best set up and will let you use it truly solo as well as tandem.

[pblanc]

I wouldn't focus too much on the rocker listings. As Shep said, there is no uniform way to measure rocker and different manufacturers might have a different determination for the same hull. Also, some boats carry the curvature along the keel line (rocker) all the way to the center and others have a center section with a fairly straight keel line that turns up dramatically near the stems. The second might be listed as having more rocker than the first, but the first canoe would have more "functional rocker".

Also remember that a good tandem team in a well outfitted boat can heel a hull with less rocker enough to clear the stems from the water. If you can get the hull onto its side a bit, the curvature of the water footprint goes way up and the "rocker" measurement becomes irrelevant.

[Shep]

It's pretty surprising what you can do with a traditional seat and removable knee straps. The Outward Bound Instructor boats are set up this way in Maine (Students don't get knee straps). Still, have you looked at the triple saddle option? It is the best way to get a solo/tandem WW specific-boat. Check out photos of the setup in a Vertige X or XL-14 or similar to see it.

Shep

[arhdc]

As has been said there are a lot of factors that go into hull design beyond just rocker profile.

There are also factors related to the specific rivers that are being run that will change the requirements for what is suitable. There are some higher volume Class III rivers that can be run in classic tandems very successfully because there are lines available to thread a longer less maneuverable canoe through. Some class III ravers are going to be very hard to get the same boats through.

I know that you are asking about WW specific canoes but you are wanting to set it up more like a classic canoe with seats which makes the comparison harder. If you are looking to be tripping on class II or larger rivers with occasional open class III (I'm thinking places like the Upper New river) then something like a Wenonah Rogue or an Esquif Canyon may be your best choice as sort of hybrid classic/WW tandems. These boats will be faster (not fast) on flatwater and have larger gear hauling capability's. Both the Rogue and the Canyon are BIG canoes and a bit of a handful solo. If you are looking for more of a true WW boat then I would strongly encourage you to go with more WW type outfitting with a triple saddle (three positions, two end ones for tandem and a center one for solo). The more central seating position will give a dryer ride tandem because the weight will be more in the center of the boat rather than weighting the ends, which tends to drive them more into waves rather than over them.

[GosuPaintballer]

Ok, newbie question.... With the triple saddle or any saddle for that matter, i'm assuming your on your knees with the saddle inbetween your legs the whole time? Even though you're sitting on the saddle your knees are on the floor as well or is there other ways to sit on the saddle and paddle with your legs in front of you? The reason for this question, is both myself and my wife have bad knees and are unable to sit in the position where our knees are on the floor for any amount of long periods of time. 15 minutes here and there is no problem, but for a ww trip lasting several hours this just won't do for either of us. That's why i'm wanting the normal seating, but have it set up where we can still drop down to the floor on our knees for bigger rapids when we need to. Example is if we went to run the Nantahala, we could paddle it in the sitting position for the entire run, and then drop to our knees for better stability when we go down the falls at the end.