Advice on canoes please!

[Buttered Cat]

Hi,
I'd like some advice on canoes please.
I live near water so I wish to make use of it and buy some canoes for me, my wife and son. But I'm unsure whether to get three single-seaters or one single-seater and one two-seater. My son will no doubt want his own single-seater but much of the time I will be in the other one on my own. My concern is how well does a two-seater perform with just one person in it? Considering the weight of a person (me, 83kg) and the weight of a canoe, that's a lot of weight off-centre in a light boat. Will it affect handling, stability, drag etc.?

I've never even sat in a canoe before so I'm not after anything with great performance. Ideally I'd prefer to get just two canoes as it would be better for storage. But I'm not going to do that if it doesn't work well on the water.

Any advice welcome!

[hazardharry]

a good start will be snug fitting life vests...you may want to try renting a canoe to see if sitting in one is for you.

[Sir Adam]

As there are many different types of canoes meant for different types of water one important thing for you to consider is where you plan on paddling most? Lakes? Rivers? Flat water? Whitewater?

The other bit to consider for a family is ages of the kids, and how comfortable they would be in their own boats (maturity and athletically).

I have many fond memories growing up "canoeing" with my parents, which inevitably was flatwater with them paddling and my sister and I sitting in the middle of the canoe. I also have many great memories whitewater canoeing with my father as I got older / stronger.... We didn't have the $ for many boats (2 boats was a stretch as it was), nor was there the variety of smaller boats there is today (there are solo boats for kids for both whitewater (Composite Creations Splash) and flat water (Hornbeck 7', 8', and 9').

Regarding using a tandem (2 person boat) solo, yes it will work (especially a well designed 16' boat) but will be slower than a solo boat and generally a bit more difficult to maneuver.

And I'll second properly fitting life vests to be a priority.

[pblanc]

It would be easier to make specific recommendations if you mentioned what type of paddling you plan on, i.e, flat water lakes vs. rivers and whether you anticipate carrying a load for overnighters or camping. Also how much portaging you anticipate doing.

Lots of folks paddle tandems solo and some folks prefer paddling a tandem when even when most of their paddling is solo. If the combined weight of you and your paddling partner is under 400 lbs and you don't plan on carrying a big load, a 15 to 16 foot long tandem would probably work best. A couple of tandem designs which seem to be popular for solo paddling are the Old Town 16 ft Penobscot and a 15 ft Prospector design (quite a few makers sell Prospectors).

There are several different ways a tandem can be paddled solo. Some people sit on the stern seat and paddle the boat bow first. The advantage is that the boat is relatively narrow at the paddling station so it is easy to reach out over the gunwale to get a good vertical stroke. The problem is the boat is so bow light that the front end sticks up and catches the wind like a weather vane, but you could put several gallon polyethylene milk jugs filled with lake or river water in the bow stem to trim the boat if you want to paddle this way. The other disadvantage is that only stern steering and correction strokes can be used since you can't get your paddle blade forward of the pivot point of the boat sitting that far back.

If the seats permit and there is no thwart in the way it is often best to sit on the bow seat facing toward the design stern of the boat and paddle the boat "backwards" i.e, design stern first. This allows the boat to be in better trim and in a shorter solo might allow you to get your paddle blade forward of the pivot point. If you want to paddle this way, look for a boat that does not have molded or tractor seats that prevent you from sitting on them backwards, or a thwart just behind the bow seat that would be in the way. A hull design that is relatively symmetrical also works best for this type of use, although a mild degree of asymmetry (such as the bow depth being a couple of inches more than the stern depth is no big deal).

Another way is to paddle the tandem "Canadian Style" which is to kneel with your trunk just behind the center yoke or thwart of the tandem canoe with both knees slid over toward the chine on your paddling side. This centers your body weight pretty well and trims the boat. It also allows you to heel (lean) the canoe rather dramatically (if you desire) toward your paddling side making it easier to turn a long tandem and easier to reach over the gunwale. I don't find this position terribly comfortable for long paddles but then I haven't practiced it that much.

If you want to paddle the boat from near the center a good option is to install a third seat or a kneeling thwart about a foot or a foot and a half behind the center of the boat. This allows you to sit or kneel with the boat in trim and use both bow and stern steering and correction strokes and even cross strokes (if the boat is not too wide). Having a thwart or seat in that position will limit the amount you can load in the boat and can encroach on the leg room of a paddler sitting on the stern seat, however. Some symmetrical canoe designs have a pair of conventional seats for tandem use, and a kneeling thwart for solo use positioned such that the boat is paddled "stern first" when soloing. In that position the kneeling thwart is not going to be in the way of anyone's legs.

Remember that in most cases it is relatively easy and not terribly expensive to move or add thwarts, or change seats. Some makers also sell removable "drop in" seats, although the few I have tried were not too comfortable.

[Buttered Cat]

I guess there should have been a few more facts included!

First of all, life vests. Sound advice of course but all the waterways around here are very shallow, and in most cases man-made. My son in 13 and if he fell in the water would only come up to his waist. Added to that he's a very competent swimmer, so I think it's safe to say life vests are not needed at the moment.

The water is only flat-water and I don't intend carrying any significant load.

Some interesting point there to look out for which I wouldn't have thought of. So with those in mind I'll take a look around and see what's available second-hand. But it looks like a tandem is the way to go.

[arhdc]

Life vests are very important.

I think that most here would agree with me on this one, no matter what kind of water you are on.

I was a competitive swimmer and a lifeguard for many years and can swim better than most and I still wear a PFD (personal flotation device) for all of my boating. There are several things to consider, are you ALWAYS going to be in shallow non moving water, is there ANY way you can get hit on the head and knocked out or injured, are there local/state LAWS that require PFD's be in the boat and/or worn, especially for minors? PFD's save lives.

Good quality, good fitting PFD's are not hard to wear and you will get many years of use out of them.

[bkebs]

1 absolute is that you need comfortable life vests to be safe. A guy died near me not long ago when he had a heart issue that caused him to fall out of a kayak. Even though his wife was nearby, he drowned in shallow water. Never paddle without a vest. Doing so is stupid.

It sounds to me like you would be best served with a solo boat and one tandem boat. For small water I would advise a 15 to 16 foot tandem and a 12 to 14 foot solo. Brand a specific model depend on what you like and what you want to spend.

[atcq]

This can't be emphasized enough so I'll also add you should get some decent PFDs. Its not even legal in Canada to be in a watercraft without PFDs, not sure if its the same in the US but regardless you're putting yourself and your son at unnecessary risk without them.

[hazardharry]

lots of info on paddling.net we are kinda the end of the line when it come to paddlin. we eat meat and bleed red white and pabst blue ribbon. get your family an OLD TOWN DISCOVERY 16.9 from craigslist for $400

[Bob P]

If none of your family has any canoeing experience, I'd highly recommend taking a course. Paddling - especially solo - is not something that's particularly intuitive. There are also some good videos (even as a supplement to the personal instruction), like From Here to There and Tom Foster's Solo Whitewater Open Canoeing even if you're only going to paddle flatwater. Youtube has many free videos too. IMHO, ExpertVillage (Bruce Lessels) has some of the best.

If you are going to get one solo boat and one tandem, switch the combinations (and bow to stern paddling) frequently. You'll be a better paddler in each boat with experience in both.

[milkman]

Someone mentioned paddling.net as a resource. It's particularly good for user reviews of canoes. See http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/ to read the reviews.

[rowdus90]

Although a number of members have emphasized the necessity of a life vest, i'll hit the topic again.

When I first started paddling, I didn't feel the urgency of always wearing my vest. I valued it, dont get me wrong, but taking it off when I was in shallow water just didn't seem like a big deal.

After becoming a better paddler, taking a few classes and paddling more and more with seasoned paddlers the vest really became engrained in my routine. When I get on the water the vest is on, when I get off the water the vest comes off. It doesn't leave me at all when I paddle. I dont care if i'm in 3'' of water, moving or flat. The vest is one of those things that takes the sport to a whole different level of safety. With out a vest you're really risking a lot. Pardon my blunt nature & please do not take this as a flaming. But the life vest shouldn't be something that you overlook. Forget the boat, it's no good if you're dead.

A good comfortable life vest can be had for less than 75 bucks. Most folks new to the sport recall a vest as this big, bulky, hot & uncomfortable peice of itchy block you sit on in your boat. Vests now adays are not as described. They're ergonomic, comfortable & designed to keep you cool. Even on 100 degree days removing it really doesn't cross my mind. Rather, if I get hot, I take a dip in the water to cool off. Dont buy your vest from Wal-mart, go to a reputable paddle shop.

As for a boat - Sounds like a prospector canoe would be in order, they're very versitile - works well for moving water & flat, but there are many boat choices out there. You're son will definately dig a solo canoe, he's in the "i can do it myself" stage and wont be happy sitting between mom & pops paddling.

Do your self and your family a big favor - Buy them all a life vest first- built by a reputable manufacturer from a reputable paddle shop & make sure they always wear it. Find a local canoe club & take an intro class, you wont regret it. Also, dont buy a Coleman canoe.

[drrpm]

If there is a local canoe club it could be a useful source of experience and information. As a total novice you don't even know what you don't know (this is not a slam, I didn't know much when I started either and learned lots of stuff the hard way). If you can go out a few times with some experienced folks it will allow you to skip learning the hard way.

It would also be a good idea for you to learn the laws that govern boating in your state. All the states I've boated in require a PFD for each person in the boat. There are also various age requirements as to whether or not a child has to be wearing it, though you're obviously better off having it on in a boat that can easily tip over. There may be other requirements as well such as having a sound device.

If you post your location, maybe a local member of this forum could help you get started as well.