How much does paddle design affect rolling?

RapidMediaTVGuy · Post by **RapidMediaTVGuy** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:58 pm

So I just learned to roll an open boat a few weeks ago (haven't had the chance to try again since) and I was basically using a crappy aluminium and plastic raft paddle and wondered how much different it would be with something better? I have no basis on wether it was my poor technique (which I'm sure played a part), or gear but I felt that the paddle was causing me some grief.

Any thoughts?

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:27 pm

The motion is more hips then paddle so it shouldn't matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ8az05ZXqY

That being said, I think a longer paddle and slightly larger blade make it a bit easier.... a harder on your shoulder.

Tighten your outfitting and work on your lower body

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:13 pm

Believe that paddle choice would be of lesser concern, as compared to other factors....

(sure to get no bonus points for this)

... as I actually like that crappy aluminum raft paddle better than many of the high dollar ones. Especially when strictly compared to other the non-curved blades. Plus there are so many little things, that seem to affect my roll.

keez · Post by **keez** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:26 pm

Lokking at that video, I so suck at rolling.
Though I'm 90% efficient in combat roll situations, the video has this guy doing hand rolls.
I have much to learn Yoda...
Keez

How many other poor SOBs have now had their confidence diminished.

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:30 pm

Many people don`t try.

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:43 pm

ian123 wrote:The motion is more hips then paddle so it shouldn't matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ8az05ZXqY

That being said, I think a longer paddle and slightly larger blade make it a bit easier.... a harder on your shoulder.

Tighten your outfitting and work on your lower body

Clearly, it's the *hat*.

I do like a more buoyant blade, seems easier to find the surface better. But... practice with a small bladed, short paddle - one of those crappy raft paddles can be perfect, because as has already been noted - it ain't about the paddle...

Todhunter · Post by **Todhunter** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:56 pm

I personally think my life vest choice plays a larger role than my paddle. One with slightly more flotation allows my torso to float better as I am doing my "twisted stomach crunch" at the beginning of my roll. This in turn keeps my paddle blade closer to the surface, and means my blade isn't so deep when I'm up. I have rolled with no live vest on, but I find my roll much better with one on, and even better with one that has a little more flotation.

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:11 pm

With regards to pfds, I actually find the opposite. Once you get used to rolling without a pfd, it actually gets in the way. A pfd helps when you re learning because you can slow things down a bit, but you ll never have a quick roll if you re waiting to float up beside the boat.

RapidMediaTVGuy · Post by **RapidMediaTVGuy** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:35 pm

I guess it is my lousy technique. Ah well gives me something to work on this weekend.

Thanks for the replies and sharing the vid. Something to shoot for.

Dan Caldwell
Rapid Media TV Guy

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:15 pm

I've been paddling the last week with the Core C1 paddle with the large air pocket in the blade. Its like the fabled Ring of Sauron. Whereas the ring wants to find its master, the Core wants to find the surface.

Other than that, I can't really feel a difference during the actual 'roll' phase just in the setup

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:35 am

A paddle that behaves like a good wing when sculling is usually good for rolling also. For years I rolled well with a Norse, which seemed to fly and strop very well. My slalom paddles have worked well also. Some short bladed, non-curved paddles seem not to settle into a climbing angle.

I'm very tall, and so after a normal setup, a hip snap starts the process, and the paddle blade strops forward as my body comes low over the bow. Raising my trunk stops the roll process. I can't do a short "Kent Ford" roll.

old school · Post by **old school** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:35 am

I nave not paddled in 30 yr but had an absolute bullet proof roll when I did. In over 200 trips on 100 rivers, the biggest, baddest we could find mostly IV, V & VI, I never had to come out of my C1 boat. I was ripped from my OC1 and swam a couple times(Gauley Iron Ring comes to mind) but never my C1.
Things have changed a lot since then but I think the basics are still the same. The pros in here will correct me if not.

Some guys in here have perfected this technique to a science with some good videos avail on rolling(look for past postings).

One thing that helped me was to understand that 90% of rolling a boat is in the hip turn.

You only need a paddle as a lever to give the hips something to move aganist.
That is why you can roll a boat without a paddle, ITS IN THE HIP TURN.

One good way to learn the hip turn is to practice in a pool. Get in boat put both hands on the pool edge, lay out in the water(ie turn over) and just turn your hips to turn the boat back upright while keeping your hands on the pool edge.

You can also do a lot of reps this way without wearing yourself out.

This practice technique helps instill that first thought(hip turn) in your mind and not depend so much on the paddle.

ie THINK - HIP TURN, not paddle move.

As for the paddle itself, it helps some to have a thin blade paddle that you can feather to the surface quickly. I used a big, long Norse for OC1 but it takes a while to get it to the surface compared to a thin blade paddle. I used a thin blade(FRP with metal tip) Perception or Oakley for C1.

If you are in the old standard tuck position(paddle flat against the deck of your boat, with your head down against the paddle) then tilt the paddle blade up toward the surface when you make your move to the side and let it hunt the surface. while you are making the hip turn.

Another practice technique we used was to hold a PFD in your hands, flip and use it like a paddle.

I have also practiced this on dry land. Get in boat, flip, lay on ground, turn hips to get boat flat.

Good luck and Be safe.

Let me know if this helps any.

Welcome to C Boating - its like the mafia, once your in, you cant get out

bill

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:06 am

I nave not paddled in 30 yr but had an absolute bullet proof roll when I did. In over 200 trips on 100 rivers, the biggest, baddest we could find mostly IV, V & VI, I never had to come out of my C1 boat. I was ripped from my OC1 and swam a couple times(Gauley Iron Ring comes to mind) but never my C1.

Bill,

Could you tell us your last name?
SYOTRiver (once upon a time)?

Bruce Farrenkopf

old school · Post by **old school** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:58 pm

The ultimate goal is to learn to hand roll.
This is not a gimmick but a very real emergency back-up.

While one of the cardnial rules is to never let go of your paddle,
If you paddle enough big water you are going to loose it somwhere and most likely at a bad/violent spot where you need it most.

A couple of times it happened to me on a steep creek, got jammed in a rock crack in a Class V and I was pulled away from it. It stayed stuck there, but I had to finish the rapid. Hmmm, paddling a Class V with more ahead without a paddle, better be able to hand roll. Which fortunately I could.

And you will not be able to get to your spare in the middle of a rapid - maybe C1O but not in C1 anyway.

But usually in this spot, things happen really fast and you wont have time to get to a spare.

So the object is to, bit by bit, learn the roll with less and less paddle effort until you can hand roll.

scott curtis · Post by **scott curtis** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:14 am

yeah thats everything, i got a long one and a short one

C-Forum

How much does paddle design affect rolling?

How much does paddle design affect rolling?

rolling

Darn...